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I am tired of complaints about Glorious Solar Saber!!!

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Citadel97501 Posted: 25 Jul 2009 1:24 PM
I have seen on these forums, and in my own games people always complaining about the power of GSS, and I have decided to point out some issues that people seem to overlook most of the time.  These examples are only valid if the ST doesn't allow the off hand shield of doom which is kind of ridiculous.  (+10 Defense GSS in off hand)

These examples are using the following two templates since they are quite simple and common. . . 

Solar Melee Guy: Dexterity: 5, Melee: 5, Speciality: 3 in Swords, Strength 3, Orichalum HS Bracers.

Good Armor Guy: Defense Value: 7, Stamina 4, Soak: 12L/13B, Hardness: 8
-This is just a basic 5MM Reinforced Breast Plate with a staff. . . 

Super Accurate. . . 
Speed: 5, Accuracy: 10, Defense: 0, Base Damage: 5L, Parry DV: 7

This version will have major issues getting through any decent hardness value just so he can do ping damage, unless he uses charms like Hungry Tiger which might let him reliably pass hardness but then he will die from his opponent since he won't have a charm defense. . . 

Super Defense. . . 
Speed: 5, Accuracy: 0, Defense: 10, Base Damage: 5L, Parry DV: 12

This version is extremely hard to hit without a charm but can't hit very often, and when they do will have issues punching through hardness.  

Super Damage Guy. . . 
Speed: 5, Accuracy: 0, Defense: 0, Base Damage: 25L, Parry DV: 7

This version requires a Solar Elemental Lens, and then can't hit the broadside of a barn, but if he does whatever it is has a very bad day. . . A minimum of 14 dice versus the normal example which would give you an average of 5 health levels lost in one shot. . . 
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My players thought it was too strong. Way too strong. As a result, they all decided to not take artifact weapons and to instead rely on GSS for their combat ability.
They ran out of essence pretty quick. That, in my mind, is the largest weakness. Sure, there's ways around it, but still.
Diplomacy tends to fail if attempted after first eviscerating the target.
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Your Accuracy guy does a minimum of 6L. Since he is so very accurate, he'll often do better than that. Since he'll often do better, his raw damage will often be higher. A 23 accuracy produces an average of 12 successes. Against the DV 7 you've listed for an opponent, that's 5 extra successes, for a raw damage of 10L, which is above the hardness you've listed.

Defense guy uses his GSS as a shield. The other hand has an offensive weapon in it, possible the offensive model of GSS. You're addressing the defensive portion of this build as though it were the offensive portion, which is illogical.
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I wonder if the 10m 1wp option allows you to summon different versions of the weapon for that nice +10 acc +10 defense sweetness.
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Strangely, the complaints I've heard about GSS are all about how it's too weak, not too strong. Compare to a good artifact daiklaive...

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It's weak if you try to use it like a normal weapon, it's broken if you abuse stat stacking.
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GSS? That is no where near as busted as Spirit Weapons of axe or spear and the upgrade in the abyssal book. You get speed, accuracy, and damage! If you use knives it is easier to use it with Perfect Kata Bracers!
"Oh, and godmod is nothing in exalted, since gods are clearly inferior to the chosen!" - Hyperion
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ZexionAlmasy:
GSS? That is no where near as busted as Spirit Weapons of axe or spear and the upgrade in the abyssal book. You get speed, accuracy, and damage! If you use knives it is easier to use it with Perfect Kata Bracers!


Only Accuracy and Damage, and doing aggravated damage to creatures of darkness.  The bracers in turn are secondary to the straightforward ability to conjure up +16Lp javelins for 2 motes with an Essence Lens.
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I tend to like using it as a defensive weapon, simply for the fact when you boil it down to artifacts you have at best +6/7 to parry (assuming a baneclaw of the Moonsilver or Black Jade rules variety), even on that hand without tons of buffs to it, I can (without spending more motes) give a CoD a really bad day by whackin em with it. As for OP...as everything in Exalted your mileage may vary...though I have to agree using it as a standard or Balanced weapon....isnt gonna get you too damn far.
A heart with a hole can never be filled, always wanting always needing such is the principle of Void, such is the pain I feel. -Sierra Adrastea.
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Adamant Siaka:
The bracers in turn are secondary to the straightforward ability to conjure up +16Lp javelins for 2 motes with an Essence Lens.

You really need to explain how you got +16LP off of a javelin all I can come up with is the following, but yes I do find that Spirit Weapons is a much better charm if nothing else just because its reflexive allowing you to summon weapons to parry with. . .

Javelins are Resources 2 minimum, so you can't make perfect or even exceptional versions with the Spirit Weapon Charm so your stats are locked as far as I can see with Elemental Lens, remember the damage from your strength and Orichalum HS Bracers isn't doubled.  I did experiment with a few other weapons to see if there was some other way to boost this?

Speed: 4, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +6LP, Rate: 2, Range: 30 yards
Speed: 4, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +6LP, Defense: +1, Rate: 2

Axes arre actually alot better than I thought for sheer damage, here is the exceptional axes I would use. . . 

Speed: 5, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +8L, Rate: 2, Range: 10 yards
Speed: 4, Accuracy: +2, Damage: +12L, Defense: -1, Rate: 2

However I have always liked Knives the best for this charm, unless the guy is wearing alot of armor. . . 

Speed: 5, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +8L, Rate: 3, Range: 25
Speed: 5, Accuracy: +2, Damage: +8L, Defense: +0, Rate: 3
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I actually let Glorious Solar Saber get as powerful as you want.  Even if you put it all in Accuracy, it doesn't do shit to help you get past a perfect defense...and if you aren't using those, you aren't going to stand against a Solar very long anyways.  I even allow a Charm from the Facets, Piercing Rays of Dawn Meditation, in my games, and let it STILL go where ever.  I don't care if your weapon has twenty Accuracy and infinite Rate...it won't break my game.
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@Citadel You are forgetting, add now your highest virtue to Accuracy and Damage and Rate.

Valor 5 so that makes them.. +5acc +10dmg if you use the lens
"Oh, and godmod is nothing in exalted, since gods are clearly inferior to the chosen!" - Hyperion
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Citadel97501:
You really need to explain how you got +16LP off of a javelin all I can come up with is the following, but yes I do find that Spirit Weapons is a much better charm if nothing else just because its reflexive allowing you to summon weapons to parry with. . .

Javelins are Resources 2 minimum, so you can't make perfect or even exceptional versions with the Spirit Weapon Charm so your stats are locked as far as I can see with Elemental Lens, remember the damage from your strength and Orichalum HS Bracers isn't doubled.  I did experiment with a few other weapons to see if there was some other way to boost this?

Speed: 4, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +6LP, Rate: 2, Range: 30 yards
Speed: 4, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +6LP, Defense: +1, Rate: 2

Axes arre actually alot better than I thought for sheer damage, here is the exceptional axes I would use. . . 

Speed: 5, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +8L, Rate: 2, Range: 10 yards
Speed: 4, Accuracy: +2, Damage: +12L, Defense: -1, Rate: 2

However I have always liked Knives the best for this charm, unless the guy is wearing alot of armor. . . 

Speed: 5, Accuracy: +1, Damage: +8L, Rate: 3, Range: 25
Speed: 5, Accuracy: +2, Damage: +8L, Defense: +0, Rate: 3


Fiery Solar Chakram was referenced in the line of conversation.  It's the Mirror of the Abyssal enhancement of Crypt Bolt Attack, Eyes Like Daggers, and adds your primary Virtue to the Accuracy and Damage of all weapons conjured by Spirit Weapons.  So, +3L base adjustment is bumped to a maximum of +8L, and that doubled is +16L (aggravated to creatures of darkness and piercing besides).  The Accuracy sits a +6.  On the downside, you only get to attack twice per action... without Wind Full of Knives.  Then you can attack (Thrown) times.
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Adamant, did you forget you can use throw weapon in melee and have them dual wielded?
"Oh, and godmod is nothing in exalted, since gods are clearly inferior to the chosen!" - Hyperion
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ZexionAlmasy:
Adamant, did you forget you can use throw weapon in melee and have them dual wielded?


No, but on the other hand, Glorious Solar Saber likely also has an upgrade Charm or two possible that would make it equivalent in stature to SW + FSC.
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