World of Darkness Online - Confirmed

Morbid889:

With WoW still having an iron grip on the market, all of the other MMO's have suffered. When WAR came out, it was the talk of the town for a month. Yet, it lost a huge amount of it's player base with the following months. Same thing with Age of Conan.

That's why the wod mmo cannot be anywhere near the same as wow. It needs to fill a niche that isn't anything like wow, I'm hoping it strives to have very enthralling storylines that are immersive and interesting not bland and boring that consist of go here and kill this or go here and collect this. If they make the story cool they should be able to bring players that aren't interested in wow to begin with to there game. Also the mechanics will need to be unique from wow I think the best way to accomplish this is to not have a leveling system but just like the TT game create your char from the ground up than pick and choose what you want your char to have.

Don't get me wrong I don't want these things because I'm a fanboy but because they won't get anywhere trying to beat wow, they have to offer something that wow doesn't have and create a niche game that isn't in competetion with wow.

But yeah my only real hope is that it isn't boring as hell like most mmorpg's, by that I mean grinding for xp constantly to get your char up to snuff, quests that the text for the storyline is more boring to read than a dictionary, NPC's that have no substance at all, combat that is lack luster and the same tactic over and over again to win (or lose, whatever respawn try again) and equipment that looks lame as hell until your a raging badass than who cares, oh yeah and pvp only being capable if you are so many levels within your opponents level (eg a level 55 hunter fighting a level 65 paladin has no chance hell even a group of level 55 are going to get destroyed). Just a couple of reasons I find most mmo's to be boring.

My two cents

thecapopriest:

That's why the wod mmo cannot be anywhere near the same as wow.

Well, here I am!  Fitting place for my first post ever on these forums.

If anyone wants an idea of how the characters might  look in WoD, here's a preview video for Eve Online's upcoming "Ambulation" or "Walking in Stations" expansion. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abMEVENz1jQ

Here is the problem with a WoD MMO, specifically with Vampire:

Vampire is a social game. At its core, it's a brutal game of betrayal, usurpation, rivalries, and alliance. In order for many decisions to be meaningful, attacks on other players have to have permanent consequences. However, MMOs are by nature opposed to permanent consequence. Now, that is not to say that it is impossible to balance these things, but it would take a substantial paradigm shift in the way people envision gaming

Now, you can deftly sidestep this issue in two ways. One, you can reimagine Vampire as a static game in which the social aspect has been removed - all the important members of a city are lifeless NPCs or at best, occasionally controlled GM characters of improbable experience level. This creates a situation in which you just replaced everything that is fantasy about WoW and replace it with a modern Gothic face. You go on a "quest" from the Harpy to go beat up some troublesome neonates or :find a Mage or whatever and he gives you XP, loot, or at best, some kind of "Rank" pseudo-stat that acts like Status and confers some debatable benefit. PvP in this scenario makes up the majority of the "social gameplay" and the PvE aspects are static.

The other option is just not to use vampires at all, since the other game lines are much more friendly towards a direct, modern MMO structure.

That's my opinion, anyway.

I think in your rush to attemptto be witty, you seem to have missed the sarcasm of my post...

I've played a lot of games over the years, using a lot of systems.. and I have to say.. White wolf fans are among some of the snobiest players in the gaming world..

Anyway.. the reason WoW is so popular.. is because it's simple. The vast majority of their 11 million subscriber base isn't the hard core gamers.. it's the casual gamer who wants to sit down, play for two hours and feel they did something. WoW is built to be nearly idiot proof..

Which puts a WoD MMO in a precarious position.. if it isn't simple to pick up and play.. it will lose players back to WoW.. if it's too simple.. players will go back to WoW.. if it gets to far up it's own ass with systems and setups.. it will lose players to WoW.. if it tries to hard to fill a "niche" it will lose players to WoW..

Or.. it can accept the fact it won't do WoW numbers.. and try to be different and just appeal to specific members of the MMO audience..

Being an old-time veteran of V:TM from the 90's, and having purchased (but not played) V:TR, I am familiar with the game play and style.  If WoD attempts to mimic WoW, it will fail.  Adavancement in WoW, and many other MMORPGs is attained through grinding.  Therefore, someone who has more time to spend online will adavance further and faster than casual gamers.  Turning WoD into a grind game will cause it to fail, as many casual gamers will be turned off by that aspect.

If, however, WW includes an advancement system similar to Eve Online, it will appeal to the casual gamer much more, in that the player may queue up certain skills, attributes, disciplines, etc, allowing the character to advance even when the player is offline.  What skills, etc, are able to be queued up will be subject to game mechanics, and the queue itself will be limited to a certain time limit, forcing a player to at least log on every so often in order to line up new skills.

Older vampires are in general more powerful than newer ones, and the above system reflects that very well.  This concept is similar for werewolves and mages, as well.  Under a grind system, casual players will fall far behind the hardcore players, which will adversely affect their desire to continue playing.  Under a queue system, longevity in game is rewarded, and players who have been in game longer can become true Elders.

That is not to say that hardcore gamers shouldn't be rewarded.  There can be statistics or attributes in game which may only be increased through actual game play (such as status with a bloodline).  Players who only log on long enough to queue their skills will not be able to advance in these areas.

CCP has created a very nice niche for itself in Eve Online with this system, and I expect WoD will contain a similar system.

I am also a huge fan of the 'single server' concept, where all players are located in the same world.  The world can be divided into separate regions, or cities around the world, but in the end everything is interconnected.

These are my two cents.

MisterShifter:

You'll "level" up like every other MMO.. maybe you'll train specific skills like SWG did originally or like EVE does.. but it won't be like playing a Table Top game on a computer..

Dream a little dream?  MisterShifter, it's not going to work by levels nor by training specific skills.  I can tell you right now, getting in fights won't directly benefit any character.  The sort of guys who can be slain in central park aren't going to provide much for the character who kills them.  The way it's going to go is this.  A beginning player decides to experiment with treating this game like any MMO, not reading the rules, not going through the introduction gameplay.  They walk into a darkened park and ambush someone.  If that person is alone, the starting vampire will probably not kill them immediately and the victim flees screaming.  Chasing after will only attract attention and the police will be called.  A starting vampire will not begin with a gun, most likely (gun permits take time), but rather might obtain a knife.  What if a gang accompanies him?  Well, should they catch their victim and murder their victim, they'll lose Humanity points, their derangements will pile up, and they will be hunted by police and perhaps even the federal police.  Furthermore their vampire character might perish.  Especially if they get a Hunter on their trail -- which should probably be by different means than grabbing police and federal attention: a Hunter will notice supernatural activity and explore areas which are said to be home to supernatural activity.  Of course, Hunters involved with Conspiracy level groups will probably grokk that a vampire is behind crimes when the police reports start sounding funky.

There are several other options, ranging from gaining xp from influence over events and status in addition to more creative options.  What if a character earns something in gameplay, might it not be worth as much xp as it would normally cost to purchase such a thing through expenditure of xp?  Surely it would be hard to earn.  Also, there might be roadblocks to certain powerful gains that mean more in an MMO than in a directly moderated game -- status for instance, powerful supernatural allies for another instance.  We might be able to earn a "werewolf friend" or eventually become leader of a Ventrue interest/project in the city,  but it's nothing we'll start with and might be challenging to keep some forms of earnings.  Regent for example.  Furthermore, it will probably occur that more cities appear as expansions do.  This isn't so much work as might be assumed especially once the initial work on graphics and city structuring has been done: so it's probable that a new city, a city where werewolves tend to dwell, might be more vast and suburban amid the wilds and yet still be opportune for vampires.  And when mages appear, an even more interesting city might be added.  Travel between these becomes all the more focal when prometheans, changelings, and hunters come to fore.

We can expect the economy in the WoD MMO to play a strong role -- after all, vampires aren't just tiptoing along grabbing people to bite.  They need money and need power in the secular world to carry on a Danse Macabre.  We can expect that millions of people will be enjoying themselves in the story formed by actual player character activity -- and actual player character influence over NPCs might cause ripples to shake the story entire.

Furthermore, neither CCP nor White Wolf is ignorant about the wealth of sim-games that appear.  There will likely be at least one film studio eventually (see The Movies by Lionhead Studios), a news broadcast company, detective agencies, nightclubs, and many more facilities that might keep running late at night.  Who wouldn't want to be a vampire movie producer, a vampire newscaster, a vampire hacker?  Despite the fact that Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines did not have a changing internet simulation, rather than an internet that worked predictably along with the story, it would be really easy to necessitate that information about the game world and clues be stored somewhere so the character could remember it all.  And skill rolls must be made to remember anything not recorded.  So we might have vampires storing private information on personal computers in the game -- and hackers ready to pull that information from disconnected computers with portable scanners?  So some vampires would record clues and information in books.  Another concept that seems to be missed in most MMO, even tactical MMO with crafting, is the crafting of strategic and tactical plans even unto sport plays or espionage directive.  These can provide situational bonuses when understood and followed, but where to keep them until they are needed?  What if a vampire crafts a strategic plan against a werewolf tribe and wishes a character of a friend of his to improve this plan when that friend returns to the game from vacation?  This plan must be stored somewhere.  And can be discovered -- and sold to the werewolves.

I think it is a good idea to have a hefty rulebook for this MMORPG because an understanding of the rules can help us to manuever within the game and the more gameplay permitted within an MMORPG the more fun we might have with it (and hence the less boredom, the less frustrated behavior, and the more satisfied constant customers, more money).  The learning curve can be eased by the fact that not all information will be necessary for the beginner, but by the time they become very powerful characters they will have learned much of the information gradually.

And the power curve will be interesting: blood potency can be a trap (requiring blood more difficult to obtain than that of beasts) and so "level" will not be so determinant as in most MMORPG.  In a choice to begin at 1st to 4th level but with a cost to the character, most people would choose 4th level -- but what if the characters who began at 1st or 2nd are more competent because they begin with more points to distribute to skills and abilities and other merits besides blood potency.

Mendrian:

Here is the problem with a WoD MMO, specifically with Vampire:
Vampire is a social game. At its core, it's a brutal game of betrayal, usurpation, rivalries, and alliance. In order for many decisions to be meaningful, attacks on other players have to have permanent consequences.

Losing a sizeable portion of whatever you carry at the moment (assuming you lose the fight) does qualify? Or would losing points in a security rating when you attack someone to whom you don't have attacking rights?

'Cause if so, EVE Online provides that.

Really, everyone who wants to give a shot at what the WoD MMO should feature must play EVE a little first. Otherwise it's just talking out of what CCP already doesn't do.

By the way, to those who stuck to WoW like it's the only thing that really works in the MMO field, it would do to make a little research. IIRC, EVE Online has already become the second largest MMO out there (in total player base size). It caters exactly to those who wouldn't play WoW and similar MMOs. In short, it's proof that WoW is just the cop-out solution to MMOs, not the be-all, end-all of the market.

Fabio Sooner:

By the way, to those who stuck to WoW like it's the only thing that really works in the MMO field, it would do to make a little research. IIRC, EVE Online has already become the second largest MMO out there (in total player base size). It caters exactly to those who wouldn't play WoW and similar MMOs. In short, it's proof that WoW is just the cop-out solution to MMOs, not the be-all, end-all of the market.

Exactly, Eve does well because it is original and draws in players with no real interest in wow or its clones. But either way you slice it wow is a powerhouse the only real way to make it right now is to not go into direct competition with wow, because there still is a pretty sizeable untapped market that don't want anything to do with wow and want a different setting than eve provides (I like eve but the setting wasn't what I wanted and most people I know don't want to play scifi mmo) so as long as wod mmo stays original it could be a powerhouse like eve.

thecapopriest:

Fabio Sooner:

By the way, to those who stuck to WoW like it's the only thing that really works in the MMO field, it would do to make a little research. IIRC, EVE Online has already become the second largest MMO out there (in total player base size). It caters exactly to those who wouldn't play WoW and similar MMOs. In short, it's proof that WoW is just the cop-out solution to MMOs, not the be-all, end-all of the market.

Exactly, Eve does well because it is original and draws in players with no real interest in wow or its clones. But either way you slice it wow is a powerhouse the only real way to make it right now is to not go into direct competition with wow, because there still is a pretty sizeable untapped market that don't want anything to do with wow and want a different setting than eve provides (I like eve but the setting wasn't what I wanted and most people I know don't want to play scifi mmo) so as long as wod mmo stays original it could be a powerhouse like eve.

honestly if i could find my old discs for UO i would play again.  granted you can only play on teh free shards but regardless if you wanted to just be a blacksmith damn it you could do it. 

If the WODO was a lot like the sim-type games, with EVE online's player-run elements, it will do well.  As someone already said, there are plenty of people who would sign up JUST for immersion.  How many people will play just so they could go to a nightclub with a hot Daeva character.  How many people would love to be a Mage, and truly rewrite the game environment around them?  Imagine how immersive a Changeling expansion pack would be, or the depth and interesting PVP elements of a Hunter game, or the Solo-gaming specific nature of a Promethean one.  I think WODO would be like a darker, more realistic version of Second Life.  In WODO, you aren't going there to grind.  You're going there to live a different life, as a different you.  You might get into fights, yes, but they're costly and dangerous.  You're more likely to find a niche and try to defend it. 

I like the idea that each "Server" is a City in the world, and that you could move between Cities by purchasing means of travel.  It would be an interesting dynamic, and would allow for local cultural variety.  It might be harder to design, but fictional cities might do a nice job at capturing general areas.  Gamers from any continent might have a local city to play in, or they might go abroad (if they can speak the language, or purchase the Language merit that provides an in-game translator).

I think that a lot of the traditional MMO UI features should be abandoned.  For example, I don't think that you should be able to see a character's name or race when you see them onscreen, or even click on them.  If you want to read someone's profile or scan their equipment, you have to use an ability that lets you do so (Either mundane, or supernatural).  Similarly, you can't instant message people unless you have telepathy or a telephone.  Not only will this add realism to the game, it would give certain characters a good niche to fill.  A Mind Mage or Auspex Vampire would know more about his opponents than anyone else, as well it should be, and can even silently send messages to others without anyone overhearing. 

Of course, some "Traditional" elements of an MMO might be hard to pull off.  For example, what sorts of crafting-type characters can be made with a Vampire?  Sure, they can do black-market dealing instead, but there aren't many miners or blacksmiths around today, and very few vampires would be using something hand-made anyway. 

I think that Death should have very profound consequences, because it would cause people to treasure their characters and be careful with them.  If being stupid will cause you to lose your character, and remake a new one without any of your old gear.. not only will assassins be more valuable, but so would characters with medical training or healing abilities.  In most MMOs, a fight that goes badly is one in which everyone is dead.  In the WODO, you should feel like you did terribly if you leave a fight with even a third of your health missing.  Death shouldn't be as ever-present as it is in most MMOs, but PVP and killing should exist (With police/security/legal consequences, as in EVE).

I can see this game being its own monster, because there isn't anything like it out there.  In some ways, it's got the immersive "alter-ego" style gameplay of Second Life and the Sims.. but with a more focused directive, like WoW.  But.. the realism and horror of Resident Evil, or Left 4 Dead.  Combat monsters can easily play a Gangrel, a Werewolf, or an Adamantine Arrow.  People who just want to RP and socialize can build characters for it, and will actually have development and goals just like a combat-monster would.  There will be in-game jobs like Interior Decorater, bodyguard, researcher, ambassador.. and much of it will be player-made, not egged on and pre-scripted by designers.  If they have NPC-moderators, the rulers and nobility of a city will have more life than in other MMOs, and players can be punished in-game for rudeness and stupidity in chat-mode.  (Vampire Princes don't take kindly to people sitting on a city block shouting "WANT TO SELL MURDER SERVICES PST").  Each gameline's X and Y stats allow for a lot of personalization for characters, and people will get very attached to their character if they put the effort into them.  If Changeling, Hunter, Promethean, and Geist all get expansion packs someday, there will be SO MANY things to do in the game that you could never do the same thing twice.  Replayability is considerably better here than in WoW--Play a Werewolf Ahroun until you're bored, then switch to a Warlock social diva.  Each race would add its own unique twists and flavours to the game, and the interactions between them all will make for a very exciting experience. 

The way I see it, it wouldn't even need to change that much from what they have now.  The can keep all the stats.  Merits will be tweaked a little, sure.  And some attributes will have to affect different things than they do in the tabletop, just so that they can be useful in an MMO.. but mostly, it doesn't have to change.  Having skill levels range from 1-5 in normal circumstances wont create so sharp a levelling curve as in most MMOs, meaning that even experienced gamers can be helped out by noobs who distributed differently.  High exp players will have more reasons to work with (and hire) lower exp ones.  Dice-pools and Actions would work pretty much the same as they do in game.  Morality and Derangements would have to be handled creatively, but could add a lot of flavour to the game (Morality could serve as the marker for "Global" security status). 

I am really looking forward to this.  If I can someday play a Fairest social manipulator in an MMO, or a REAL Mind-manipulating illusionist Mage, I will have a blast.

If you see my site and peruse the wiki all the complied confirmed info is there. Anything else is speculation at this point.

http://www.wodonlinenews.net/Wiki/tabid/64/Default.aspx?topic=World+of+Darkness+MMORPG

CCP? Oh dear, I hope its not as mind-numbingly boring as Eve (i.e. Excel in Space).

Something a bit more like City of Heroes would be good.

Newbunkle:

CCP? Oh dear, I hope its not as mind-numbingly boring as Eve (i.e. Excel in Space).
Something a bit more like City of Heroes would be good.

If I were you, I'd prepare myself for a big disappointment.

Don't get me wrong, CoH/CoV is awesome, but WoD does not bring that to mind at all.