Dragon: The Embers

alright, here's what i got for Werewolf-Dragon relations


what defines the relationship between Dragons and Werewolves is one of willful ignorance. Dragons don't meddle in the affairs of the Shadow and Werewolves don't usually meddle in the affiars of the Domain too much to warren attention from a Dragon (since Werewolves ideally want to improve their territory and Dragons want to improve their domain, both usually help the other while never know about the other's existence). 

that being said, when Dragons and Werewolves fight, people die, spirit runs amok, and the territory and Domain suffers as a result. so while Werewolves try to portray as warriors trying to kill a monster (as an effort to gain renown dots) and Dragons see themselves as Gods killing the Demons, the area around them suffers greatly.

one of the reasons why Dragons fear werewolves above most of the other supernaturals is their connection with the Shadow and more specifically, their connection to spirits. most Dragons learn early on that these beings reside in a reality where a Dragons is severally out manned and out gunned and worse, a cluster of spirits can literally be anchored to a Dragon without him knowing it. as a result, most Dragons usually leave werewolves alone and if they are in a fight, try to accomplish their objectives as soon as possible before trying to call a truce with them.

however, some Dragons can not leave well enough alone. the knowalge that they are weak against beings that may be as  numerous as the number of sand grains in the Sahara drives them to have a counter against them. as a result, Dragons that have dealt with Werewolves more than once usually have a Occultist or team of Occultists who's sole purpose is to find weaknesses and bans of spirits that plague a Domain. (it doesn't help a Dragon that most occultists get a spirit's ban right only half the time. woo becomes an occultist who's Dragon realizes that he's just a quack).

some Dragons go beyond that. they become obsessed with the Shadow by studying spirits and looking for any edge in a fight over them. these Dragons usually reach a level of expertise that makes them the envy of anyone dealing with the Shadow (unlikely) or ended dying in the mad alien fun house that is the Shadow (likely).

another point worth mentioning is the importance of family in both Dragons and Werewolves. both "races" place a great deal of importance on them (in the Dragon's case, who will inherit my Domain. in the Werewolf's case, the continuation of both the pack and the people). sadly, as a result, when Dragons and Werewolves go to war, the other guy's family is fair game. a Dragon's who daughter has been spirit Claimed as a result his meddling in the werewolf affairs, find's the werewolves families one by one, tortures them, and then leaves their head on a pike out side the werewolf's home.

that's all i got for the moment.

Gepetto887:

Shock:

well, where did the Hearts come from in the first place? my idea is the humans killed off the original Dragons, ate their Hearts, and became them. thus, all the Hearts came from one of the original Dragons and the new ones can not reproduce for some reason.

As I recall, the dragons started out being mortal, so to speak. If you killed a dragon, you killed it for good. The Heart was still a thing of power, however, because even in these times, consuming the Heart could make a mere human a dragon. It is even said that in those times, it wasn't only humans who could benefit from consuming the Heart, but other animals, too, and this may still be true, but if there has been anyone mad enough to feed his Heart to a rat or dog in order to find out, his tale is unknown.

In those days, there was Dominion, and it was held by the dragons. They could breed, even if they only rarely fertile, and they took a great time to mature. Humans could join their ranks, through one means or another, and there are many stories of those who proved themselves great enough to take a Heart. There were troubles, but not so terrible as to shatter Dominion.

Until, one day, Dominion ended, for reasons which are unclear to all dragons. The cause is this: A dragon discovered, or developed, a ritual which would allow her to remover her Heart, and yet still live. So long as her Heart remained undamaged, she would live. The ritual spread, and those who did not perform it quickly (to dragons) fell to those who did, and to other threats. Too late, however, the survivors learned that they were infertile, and it took long enough that they may not have even realized that it was the ritual which had done it to them.

Nowadays, a dragon which has not removed his Heart can become fertile, but it will take many decades, and another dragon who has not removed her Heart at all, and has been a dragon for a great many years.

In short, it is just about impossible. Not only is the likelihood of two dragons, one of each sex, not removing their Heart (and then surviving) for perhaps fifty years very very bad, but then to consider how unlikely it is that they will meet, and then actually mate, and at a time when the potential mother is actually capable of getting pregnant, well...

Maybe the odds would be better if just one dragon knew why they were infertile. But right now, the odds are as good as nil.

hum... that kinds runs counter to the fluff i was going to write about the Dragon's Creation Myth.

here's an idea: we could add both or even more to give the presence that history is full of errors that humans (or in this case, Dragons) have made, since after all, history is constantly being rewritten.

Dragons know that the Domain fell but do they know exactly why it fell? do they know anything beyond that point? most of what they got is just guess work and the idea that they hopefully got it right.

Shock:

hum... that kinds runs counter to the fluff i was going to write about the Dragon's Creation Myth.

Well, that's a creation myth. This is an end story.

Something to follow up on: From a certain point of view, this period is to the dragons as the period after Ragnarok would be to those few gods who survived. We should consider this idea, see if we can't develop it more. Maybe work a Philosophy or Sect around it.

Shock:

here's an idea: we could add both or even more to give the presence that history is full of errors that humans (or in this case, Dragons) have made, since after all, history is constantly being rewritten.

Of course.

Shock:

Dragons know that the Domain fell but do they know exactly why it fell? do they know anything beyond that point? most of what they got is just guess work and the idea that they hopefully got it right.

No. There have been many "generations" between then and now, and even the oldest dragon's "grandfather," for lack of a better term, would never have had a chance to know anyone who knew someone alive when Dominion fell. It happened horribly far into the past.

Okay, here's the current fluff and crunch for Dragons starting families (or illegitimate families)
Any Dragon that breeds with a mortal creates a Dragonborn (rating 4).  Dragonborn that breed with mortals create more Dragonborn with a rating one lower, or a normal mortal if they were of rating 2.  Dragonborn get a bonus skill specialty and can roll their merit rating if they do get a heart (Success means a free bonus dot of Furnace).  They're also aware of the Oroboroi relative to their rating in this merit.

Two Dragons that breed with each other produce a child that effectively has the Bond of Brood merit, though that child can use the 5 points of aspects at the same time as her parent (Unlike someone sharing a heart, who borrows aspects).  This child has 1/9th of a Dragon's heart in her chest, and it is suspected that nine children born of the same two Oroboroi could be harvested to piecemeal a new Heart.

Dragons can only breed successfully if they have not removed their heart (As in, they possess the True Heart merit and have not sided with a School).



To make these fit with what was discussed, we need to make the following changes:
Fertility can no longer be attached to True Heart, since so few dragons forgo the protection heart removal provides.

Children of two Oroboroi only possess the 1/9 Dragon heart IF both parents had their hearts in chest (As in, they had the True Heart merit).  Otherwise, the child is a 4 dot Dragonborn.

Only two Dragons BORN with full hearts can have a child that is a Dragon.  Since the Collapse, such a situation is impossible.



Do I have permission to make these adjustments?

everything looks good except for the last part.

again, we are leaving it in the ST's hands. it's much akin to Vampire becoming mortal so we could have it as a suggestion but having set rules on the matter sits as well with me as a bad taco.

anyways, so what's left other than filling in the fluff and adding more Sects?

Shock:

everything looks good except for the last part.

Which part of the last part, being able to have full-Dragon children or all the proposed changes?

Shock:

anyways, so what's left other than filling in the fluff and adding more Sects?

Someone needs to write Chapter 1 (The mythic history of the Oroboroi covering Dominion to Collapse, how the world changes when someone joins the Dragons, Dragon Society, common threats, introduction to the schools and the methods, and what it means to run and expand a Domain.  For help writing the chapter, check another template book)

I'm going to work on Chapters 2 and 3.  This could take quite a while since it will include ALL of the special mechanics for Dragon the Embers in extensive detail.  More sects will be required to finalize Chapter 2.

Somebody needs to write Chapter 4 (All the information about storytelling a Dragon the Embers game including story seeds and antagonists.  For help writing the chapter, check another template book)

We need to discuss the Aspect and Sect workshop.  How are we going to expand this into a full-fledged Appendix?  Should we go in a different direction?

We need to begin research for our sample setting (It seems we're going with Beijing, as it is in the lead with 2 votes) so somebody can write up the second appendix.

We need to gather or produce dragon-related page art (Specific full-page artwork for our inter-chapter stories and general Dragon pictures to break up the monotony of the book.  If you are acquiring artwork from the internet, you'll need to state the source so that it can be included in the book credits).

We need to write inter-chapter stories for the Introduction, Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, and both appendices.  I need to write an epilogue for Cameron the Inheritor.

We need to playtest.  Mainly, we need to pit Dragons against other templates for balance testing, then test them against each other.  I've got to email the character sheet to Mr. Gone.


I suppose that's mostly fluff... though gathering up such content and expanding on it is what creates the bulk of a game book.

CJC:

Shock:

everything looks good except for the last part.

Which part of the last part, being able to have full-Dragon children or all the proposed changes?

having full Dragon kids. i think the way that Dragons become fertile again should be up to a ST. saying otherwise just says to that this isn't in theme with NWoD's tool box mentality.

that being said, while the way that Dragons becomes fertile is up to the ST, we can elaborate on what would happen should they conceive a Dragon child and all the drama that would bring to the game if you want.

CJC:

We need to discuss the Aspect and Sect workshop.  How are we going to expand this into a full-fledged Appendix?  Should we go in a different direction?

not really, but i think we need more material to make it a "workshop". maybe we should show how we came up with the Aspects and Sects and something much akin to the Endowment and Organizations workshop in Hunter: the Vigil.

CJC:

We need to begin research for our sample setting (It seems we're going with Beijing, as it is in the lead with 2 votes) so somebody can write up the second appendix.

i'll start looking into it...by the way, how long do we want Dragon history to date back to in China? we can literally tie Dragons all the way back into the Warring States period and advance from there.. possible idea for a supplement? 

CJC:

We need to write inter-chapter stories for the Introduction, Chapter 1, Chapter 2, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, and both appendices.  I need to write an epilogue for Cameron the Inheritor.

hum.. here's an idea: we can use Cameron as a protagonist in snippets of fiction used as the Inter-chapter stories. her learning what Dragons are and all that jazz mirrors the reader's.

CJC:

We need to playtest.  Mainly, we need to pit Dragons against other templates for balance testing, then test them against each other.  I've got to email the character sheet to Mr. Gone.

cool, we can start building them as soon as he's done working on them. im guessing we would want to take it to another thread to deal with it and leave this one for general discussion.

CJC:

Shock:

anyways, so what's left other than filling in the fluff and adding more Sects?

Someone needs to write Chapter 1 (The mythic history of the Oroboroi covering Dominion to Collapse, how the world changes when someone joins the Dragons, Dragon Society, common threats, introduction to the schools and the methods, and what it means to run and expand a Domain.  For help writing the chapter, check another template book)

me and Geppeto debated it and i think we agreed that we should have many stories about the Domain before the Fall and the Fall it's self. Dragon's don't have one historical idea such as the Werewolves or Mages. it's much more akin to a bunch of smaller ideas battling it out continuously. this gives an a ST an option to pick and choose what story he wants to play.

CJC:

We need to playtest.  Mainly, we need to pit Dragons against other templates for balance testing, then test them against each other.  I've got to email the character sheet to Mr. Gone.

And I received it and added it to the site:

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/fansheets/Dragon_Embers_Character_Sheet.pdf

Nice work!

Mr Gone:

CJC:

We need to playtest.  Mainly, we need to pit Dragons against other templates for balance testing, then test them against each other.  I've got to email the character sheet to Mr. Gone.

And I received it and added it to the site:

http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pdf/fansheets/Dragon_Embers_Character_Sheet.pdf

Nice work!

it is, but it a rather crude version (not meaning to offend CJC)

Mr Gone, can you add this to your list of Character Sheets designs? we would be extremely happy if you did this and only slight changes are needed.

It's not crude, it's stylized.  I drew the base box and dot from scratch so the sheet would look distinctly different from the other WoD sheets (Since we don't have a custom font).  If it's redesigned that's okay too, but the look it has now was intentional.


Speaking of which, we have a few things to discuss about this sheet, mainly the Second page.  There are three different sections for aspects (A 5-line section for the three complex aspects [Sigil Scales, Skills of the Gods, and Natural Weaponry], a 3-line section for odd-even aspects [Like Whipping Tail and Reptillian Fear], and a 1-line section for sequential aspects [Like Inferno and Wings]).
Each aspect space has a row of dots and a row of boxes.  The dots represent how developed the aspect is (Natural Weaponry 4 would have four dots filled) and the boxes show how many 'points' of the aspect are active (The dragon with Natural Weaponry 4 would have Xs in the first two boxes if she was manifesting only the first two points of that aspect.  When in true form, the X'd boxes match the dots one for one).
If a Dragon has shared her heart with a mortal (She has a retainer with the Bond of Brood merit), whenever that bonded 'borrows' aspects the boxes from the RIGHT of the dots get marked with a slash (/).
For example, let's go back to Natural Weaponry 4.

O O O O
X X       

If the bonded borrowed a point of our dragon's Natural weaponry:

O O O O
X X      /

The last box gets marked with a slash, meaning the Dragon cannot manifest Natural Weaponry 4 while the bonded is using Natural Weaponry 1.


(I'm working on a new avatar so it doesn't seem like I'm projecting my ego on the character sheet.)

Shock:

it is, but it a rather crude version (not meaning to offend CJC)

Mr Gone, can you add this to your list of Character Sheets designs? we would be extremely happy if you did this and only slight changes are needed.

I can...just not sure when I could start it(which I said on my sheet thread). Any graphics or fonts you'd want used?

CJC:

It's not crude, it's stylized.  I drew the base box and dot from scratch so the sheet would look distinctly different from the other WoD sheets (Since we don't have a custom font).  If it's redesigned that's okay too, but the look it has now was intentional.

I kind of liked it myself. It has a crude look, but I assumed that was on purpose, stylized as it were...

I don't mean to offend CJC, but... It didn't look too hot. Not exactly something I'd want to show to people interested in Dragon. I'll leave it at that.

Gepetto887:

I don't mean to offend CJC, but... It didn't look too hot. Not exactly something I'd want to show to people interested in Dragon. I'll leave it at that.

Okay.  It'll do for the playtesting I guess, somebody else can take a shot at it later if they want.

I've been thinking about the Sweat and Lust philosophies, which both make use of the Resistant damage mechanic.  Unfotunately Sweat is currently the only source of resistant damage in the Dragon book (The other source in the nWoD is pattern scouring).  I was thinking maybe Inferno could do resistant fire damage (Meaning it can't be healed by supernatural means, unless of course a Lust dragon removes the resistant part with a level 5 philosophy).  This would make it stand on par power-wise with the aggravated damage a level 5 Natural Weapon aspect inflicts.

Mr Gone:

I can...just not sure when I could start it(which I said on my sheet thread). Any graphics or fonts you'd want used?

well i was kinda thinking of using this kinda of font:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1402728115/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Ciruelo was my main inspiration in this project and i find his font excellent to use in this book (as it isn't held by any WoD book).



[Edit: Link fixed. -MrGone]

CJC:

Gepetto887:

I don't mean to offend CJC, but... It didn't look too hot. Not exactly something I'd want to show to people interested in Dragon. I'll leave it at that.

Okay.  It'll do for the playtesting I guess, somebody else can take a shot at it later if they want.

I've been thinking about the Sweat and Lust philosophies, which both make use of the Resistant damage mechanic.  Unfotunately Sweat is currently the only source of resistant damage in the Dragon book (The other source in the nWoD is pattern scouring).  I was thinking maybe Inferno could do resistant fire damage (Meaning it can't be healed by supernatural means, unless of course a Lust dragon removes the resistant part with a level 5 philosophy).  This would make it stand on par power-wise with the aggravated damage a level 5 Natural Weapon aspect inflicts.

well, Inferno is a fire breathing ability and a lot of creatures take aggravated damage from fire so i say just leave it at that.

CJC:

Speaking of which, we have a few things to discuss about this sheet, mainly the Second page.  There are three different sections for aspects (A 5-line section for the three complex aspects [Sigil Scales, Skills of the Gods, and Natural Weaponry], a 3-line section for odd-even aspects [Like Whipping Tail and Reptillian Fear], and a 1-line section for sequential aspects [Like Inferno and Wings]).
Each aspect space has a row of dots and a row of boxes.  The dots represent how developed the aspect is (Natural Weaponry 4 would have four dots filled) and the boxes show how many 'points' of the aspect are active (The dragon with Natural Weaponry 4 would have Xs in the first two boxes if she was manifesting only the first two points of that aspect.  When in true form, the X'd boxes match the dots one for one).
If a Dragon has shared her heart with a mortal (She has a retainer with the Bond of Brood merit), whenever that bonded 'borrows' aspects the boxes from the RIGHT of the dots get marked with a slash (/).
For example, let's go back to Natural Weaponry 4.

O O O O
X X       

If the bonded borrowed a point of our dragon's Natural weaponry:

O O O O
X X      /

The last box gets marked with a slash, meaning the Dragon cannot manifest Natural Weaponry 4 while the bonded is using Natural Weaponry 1.

the mechanics are great! we just need to clean up the sheet so it looks a bit better and we are ready to go.