Dynasty opinions

I've always thought that if a werewolf had children with a mage, especially a thyrsus, a likely byproduct would be a proximus with the wolfblooded merit. I finally took the time to write that out, tell me what you guys think:


Kinfolk
Heritage Path: Thyrsus
Description: Kinfolk have an odd ancestry; mages that had children with werewolves. Usually a proximus of this dynasty does not actually continue the lineage unless they Awaken, because only a mage and a werewolf having children will cause the birth of this sort of mixed heritage (Though 2 of the same lineage having children might also continue the lineage, especially if they have potent wolf blood). As such, in most places this is a very rare occurrence, as werewolves and mages usually don't intermingle to that extent. Thyrsus, however, are the most likely to find a bond with the spiritual Uratha, and thus are the most likely to have a child so connected to the spiritual and magical world. Kinfolk blessings mimic abilities that both a mage or a werewolf may possess, and are very adept at dealing with spirits, though oddly enough usually only ones on this side of the gauntlet.
Nickname: Step-Sons/Daughters of Luna
Blessings: Spirit- Exorcist's Eye (*), Second Sight (*), Spirit Tongue (*), Gossamer Touch (**), Lesser Spirit Summons (**), Control Spirit (***), Harm Spirit (***), Numinous Shield (***). Life- Cleanse the Body (*), Self Healing (**), Honing the Form (***), Transform Self (***), Shapechanging (****), Death- Speak with the Dead (*), Forces- NightSight (*)
Curse: Kinfolk, having parents of both Awakened and Uratha heritage, are always Wolfblooded. Mechanically, this means that merit must be purchased alongside this dynasty, and the drawbacks inherent with it are applied to the Proximi of this lineage. However, the Thyrsus blood lingering in their system increases the drawbacks due to the odd spiritual energies mingling in their blood; they count as a wolf blooded of one dot higher when determining drawbacks (Except for rage, since that is only affected by their werewolf blood)- for 5 dot wolf blooded, this causes them to receive an additional -1 to resist derangements, and a -1 penalty to resist being affected by spirit numina.
Oblations: Meditating under the moonlight




Note: This of course assumes you skirt the rules and allow the just barely not mentioned combination of wolf blooded and Proximi, obviously. And of course, the lineage can't First Change, according to Proximus rules

falco1029:

Curse: Kinfolk, having parents of both Awakened and Uratha heritage, are always Wolfblooded. Mechanically, this means that merit must be purchased alongside this dynasty, and the drawbacks inherent with it are applied to the Proximi of this lineage. However, the Thyrsus blood lingering in their system increases the drawbacks due to the odd spiritual energies mingling in their blood; they count as a wolf blooded of one dot higher when determining drawbacks (Except for rage, since that is only affected by their werewolf blood)- for 5 dot wolf blooded, this causes them to receive an additional -1 to resist derangements, and a -1 penalty to resist being affected by spirit numina.

I think that an appropriate curse for this Dynasty would be to lose access to thaumaturge and psychic merits. As it stands they can have all the benefits of being wolf-blooded, the blessings of the proximi, thaumaturge merits, and psychic merits. Maybe state that the werewolf blood within them makes it impossible to use lesser human magic.

falco1029:

Blessings: Spirit- Exorcist's Eye (*), Second Sight (*), Spirit Tongue (*), Gossamer Touch (**), Lesser Spirit Summons (**), Control Spirit (***), Harm Spirit (***), Numinous Shield (***). Life- Cleanse the Body (*), Self Healing (**), Honing the Form (***), Transform Self (***), Shapechanging (****), Death- Speak with the Dead (*), Forces- NightSight (*)

To get the level of the blessing you take the level of the rote and add 1, there are no level one blessings. This also  means that you have to many blessings because each dynasty only gets access to thirty levels of blessings.

rickayelm:

I think that an appropriate curse for this Dynasty would be to lose access to thaumaturge and psychic merits. As it stands they can have all the benefits of being wolf-blooded, the blessings of the proximi, thaumaturge merits, and psychic merits. Maybe state that the werewolf blood within them makes it impossible to use lesser human magic.

The thing is both wolfblooded and proximi can use those normally. And with most characters, that isn't much of a curse, as most will focus on their blessings anyway, so I don't know how suiting this is.

rickayelm:

To get the level of the blessing you take the level of the rote and add 1, there are no level one blessings. This also  means that you have to many blessings because each dynasty only gets access to thirty levels of blessings.

That's how much the merit costs. The level of the blessing is still equivelant to the level of the spell

I like the idea, but as written it seems like a dynasty that can just spontaneously form whenever a mage and werewolf get busy. I'd change it to a single family from particularly powerful progenitors. I'd also tweak the curse a little, maybe make them very primal and give them a social penalty with everyone who isn't a thyrsus or werewolf and maybe even give them a social bonus with thyrsus and werewolves. They are almost irresistible to those groups meaning they constantly have some very powerful folks who don't take rejection well courting them.

falco1029:

That's how much the merit costs. The level of the blessing is still equivelant to the level of the spell

You still have too many dots for blessings though; Proximi have access to thirty dots of blessings and you currently have thirty-one there.

falco1029:

Curse: Kinfolk, having parents of both Awakened and Uratha heritage, are always Wolfblooded. Mechanically, this means that merit must be purchased alongside this dynasty, and the drawbacks inherent with it are applied to the Proximi of this lineage. However, the Thyrsus blood lingering in their system increases the drawbacks due to the odd spiritual energies mingling in their blood; they count as a wolf blooded of one dot higher when determining drawbacks (Except for rage, since that is only affected by their werewolf blood)- for 5 dot wolf blooded, this causes them to receive an additional -1 to resist derangements, and a -1 penalty to resist being affected by spirit numina.

I find this a little confusing here.   Proximi need their starting merit points to purchase blessings- forcing them to buy an additional merit robs them of a lot of options.   Not to mention that the wolf-blooded merit's blessings are a bit redundant in the face of a proximi's blessing (see below).   What happens when a starting Proximi buys the five-dot version of Wolf-blooded instead?   There'd be no "curse" associated with this dynasty.    Can you take one of the lower dot versions of the Wolf-blooded merit?

-EDIT-  Most curses seem to be on the order of a Vampire curse - no 10-again, 1's subtract on a variety of rolls, inability to tell the truth, etc.   Just having -1 to resist derangements from shocking things (which can be rare) and a -1 to numina (offset by Numinous Shield) is rather on the weak side.  Not to mention that counter-thematic:  the -1 to derangements reflects a wolf-blooded's ability to see scary things (spirits and werewolves), yet be powerless before them.    The WB are supposed to be frightened, little sheep with scary wolves fighting over them.  Proximi dynasties, by definition, are not powerless cattle.
-END EDIT-
 

rickayelm:

I think that an appropriate curse for this Dynasty would be to lose access to thaumaturge and psychic merits. As it stands they can have all the benefits of being wolf-blooded, the blessings of the proximi, thaumaturge merits, and psychic merits. Maybe state that the werewolf blood within them makes it impossible to use lesser human magic.

What benefit of being a wolf-blooded?   Proximi are immune to Lunacy (bonus!), and the Proximi blessings more than make the Unseen Sense aspect redundant.   A free specialty in Animal Ken that anyone can take?  The fifth-dot wolf-blooded power is a large joke; invoking Lunacy at +5 ensures that your either going to be attacked or have no effect (effective willpower 9 or 10).   Worthless- no, worse than that.   It makes a better flaw than blessing.

rickayelm:

To get the level of the blessing you take the level of the rote and add 1, there are no level one blessings.  This also means that you have to many blessings because each dynasty only gets access to thirty levels of blessings.

Wrong - they have access to 30 dots worth of rotes.   Not merit costs, rotes.    Also, count up the rote dots for the two example dynasties- 31 dots worth of rotes.    And while you're at it, note the way the OP detailed the blessings matches the method the two example dynasties did as well.  

Blunt Vorpal:

I find this a little confusing here.   Proximi need their starting merit points to purchase blessings- forcing them to buy an additional merit robs them of a lot of options.   Not to mention that the wolf-blooded merit's blessings are a bit redundant in the face of a proximi's blessing (see below).   What happens when a starting Proximi buys the five-dot version of Wolf-blooded instead?   There'd be no "curse" associated with this dynasty.    Can you take one of the lower dot versions of the Wolf-blooded merit?

-EDIT-  Most curses seem to be on the order of a Vampire curse - no 10-again, 1's subtract on a variety of rolls, inability to tell the truth, etc.   Just having -1 to resist derangements from shocking things (which can be rare) and a -1 to numina (offset by Numinous Shield) is rather on the weak side.  Not to mention that counter-thematic:  the -1 to derangements reflects a wolf-blooded's ability to see scary things (spirits and werewolves), yet be powerless before them.    The WB are supposed to be frightened, little sheep with scary wolves fighting over them.  Proximi dynasties, by definition, are not powerless cattle.
-END EDIT-
 

Well, for one thing, mechanically speaking they get the basic weakness of wolfblooded no matter what,a nd then ad done dot, meaning they have tp at least buy Wolf blooded 2 (2/7 merit points, plus sleepwalker at least 3, plus proximus 1 means 6/7 merit points gone right away), and then they have the wolfblooded 3 weakness, which adds penalties to derangement and such. I personally think it balances out alright. And I don't believe it's coutner-thematic as instead of being helpless, you're caught between two different worlds, a mages' and a werewolf's, and it stresses your mind THAT way. I could perhaps see increasing 9it a bit, make it act as 2 dots higher, include rage, and make the wolfblooded '6' and '7' weaknesses more signifigant. What do you think? If that seems fair, I can rewrite that part

Increasing it to "two dots higher" still runs into the problem that people that buy Wolf-blooded at 4+ dots have nothing higher to achieve.  And forcing a person to buy an additional merit for any template that needs its starting merit dots is still pushing it.

My suggestion is to drop the whole "must buy the WB merit" and just use the weakness.   Like I pointed out earlier, much of the merit is redundant, if not weaker, than the standard proximi advantages.    WB gives three advantages:  +2 to resist Lunacy, Unseen Sense (wolves/spirits), free canine specialty.   Proximi are automatically immune to Lunacy,  and their blessings allow them to see and interact with spirits far better than Unseen Sense.   And the wolf/dog specialty can be taken at character creation.   The WB merit really doesn't provide any benefit.

I still think that the weakness is unthematic, but that's a subjective opinion, easily dismissed.

Why not have their weakness be tied to the stereotype of going insane under the moon? Making it so that they pretty much go berserk once a month.