Complain incessantly about Solar Hero Style in this thread

Sojko:

Azurelight:

Final edite: Cut most out, as it was redundant and not productive.. But what, exactly, do you mean by this?

I meant to be funny, and apparantly I failed pretty pathetically. Just a jab at how MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 often causes problems on this board.

Ah Ok. Intrestigly, I was using fire fox,  so I was not expecting the error at all.

Also. @Poh: your FoIT works I guess.....I hade a diffrent idea of how to sort that one though.

Fists of Iron Technique:

JiveX:

Not worth three motes for +1 +2

I disagree pretty strenuously. 3m for cap-ignoring Accuracy and a damage bonus for the scene is a very good deal.

Solar Hero Form:

JiveX:

I don't see how this form needs to be obvious.  Sure you're hella strong but...

Most martial arts forms should be Obvious, especially those of big, out there styles as opposed to ninja styles.

Heaven Thunder Hammer:

JiveX:

Describe the mechanic by which this person-person colision can be simulated.  Is it a called shot, a flurried punch/thrown... what?

This could use better definition.

JiveX:

I would define whether the object is damaged by the same metric I used to termine whether the character was (ie they both suffer remaining yards of damage, objects have soak=hardness which simulates, already the resiliency of the inanimate I Think your changes to this charm are trying to express.

The obstacle is not damaged, unless it is a very weak inanimate object, because that is not what the Charm is meant to do. For that, you pay extra.

Ox-Stunning Blow:

JiveX:

To be frank I dont really understand this.  You've taken a charm that was already mostly only good against behemoths and made it so its definately only good against behemoths.

With the exception of the cost and precise calculation of the damage, it remains identical to the original Charm. I don't see how 1-5 damage makes that kind of difference at all.

JiveX:

For 5m that is also a very short duration crippling effect.

It's also rather potent. Internal penalties can be pretty harsh.

JiveX:

Its not even penalizing their DV if I'm reading this right (as its penalizing their actions)

Application of DV is a reflexive action. I did not say "non-reflexive actions."

JiveX:

This should probably be cheaper.

Yeah, probably.

Crashing Wave Throw:

JiveX:

Finally if I Choose to throw the target at the floor does this still mean the'yre getting knockdown+ 25B.

Horizontally or up only.

Shockwave Technique:

JiveX:

This should be a unarmed Dex+Thrown attack not an unarmed martial arts attack.  perhaps Perception+Martial arts.  Or maybe not.

Martial Arts is pretty handy at replacing other Abilities when the Charm itself is a Martial Arts Charm.

JiveX:

Counterattack tag levies an addition -1 penalty on the countattacker. Is this your intent.

I explicitly call this out in the Charm.

JiveX:

Would it be simpler to say that Attack two is resolved in step 9 of the first attack.  Not that it matters as you aren't using the thrown character's stat's for anything.  This charm seems wonky and unclear.  I like the conceptual notion of it.  But I'd consider clearly and concisely explaining first, where the accuracy of attack two was rolled etc.  Perhaps the accuracy is equal to Half (number of yards of knockback+Martial arts) successes, which values cannot be further enhanced by excelencies etc. (Ie you only get to enhance your attack against the target not the target's attack against target #2.    that way you skip an extraneous roll and you end up with a horendously high accuracy attack-- maybe not the greatest Idea actually but its definately worth revising this charm.

I really don't see how I could make it any clearer apart from saying "this attack occurs in Step 9 like a counterattack" instead of "this attack uses counterattack timing." It's an attack. It does attack things, as described. It has an Accuracy, as described. It has a base damage, as described. It has a range, as described.

Dancing with Strife Technique:

JiveX:

You need to clarify this if your DDV defends you the attack it never gets to step 6.

That is not how attack resolution works, even if you completely stop further steps of resolution on a successful defense, which you shouldn't.

Supremacy of War Method:

JiveX:

please rephrase trying to parse this hurt my little female brain.

This got a little garbled in a revision. The dice you accumulate are based on the successes the attacker rolled, not his dice themselves. Which explains what Sojko was asking about.

Ascendant Battle Visage:

JiveX:

What happens when you ad successes to a jump? +2 yards?

One yard per success, because it is a static value.

JiveX:

Does this improve melee combat as well (Since it can buff war which is used to co-ordinate attacks).

No. It's still a martial arts Charm and subject to attack and armor restriction as such.

JiveX:

Parhaps add this charm may improve actions for other abilitie but the rating in those abilities is capped by the martial artist's  (martial arts).

I don't really see a good reason to do that.

JiveX:

Does the extending count as charm use?  Does this charm persist into limit break.  Why would I reflexively extend for 10m when I could wait an action and extend for 4 actions as a simple action.  Are my actions rely so precious that they are worth wasting 7.5 motes just to not have a one action delay on super rawr power?

Extending the duration of a Charm is not a reactivation of the Charm.

Adamantine Fists of Battle:

JiveX:

how does one add levels before one applies soak.

As per the errata.

JiveX:

Maybe a late stage damage dice adder might be cool here instenad.

Perhaps.

Knockout Blow:

JiveX:

Personally I would have just made Knockout blow higher in the tree.  But I guess this is okay.  I dont see it really being worth the charm purchase and the 1wp surcharge.

I absolutely love the effect of Knockout Blow and think it's entirely worth it.

Horizon-Hurling Tactic:

JiveX:

I dont understand ur revision it seems wholly unessecary.

Horizon-Hurling Tactic extremely similar to Crashing Wave Throw-as-modified-by-Shockwave Technique, only bigger.

I've got a few custom SHS Charms, and this seems like the best place to put them at the moment. Please give me some feedback. Keep in mind that some of these Charms aren't much more than an idea written down, and are probably not perfectly balanced.

LEGENDARY HERO DEFENSE
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Once scene
Prerequisite Charms: Invincible Palm
The Sun's Chosen can withstand ten thousand attacks and will not fall or waver. For the remainder of the scene, this Charm removes the onslaught penalties other characters' attacks impose on the Solar's DV, as well as all DV penalties from wounds. Furthermore, the Exalt can parry ranged and lethal attacks unarmed without a stunt for the duration of this Charm.

This Charm's prereq, Invincible Palm, is a perfect parry just like HGD, which has the prereqs of a Bulwark Stance-like Charm, which requires FoIT. This Charm is obviously similar to FFBS and FLB, but instead of -1 to attack DV penalties or negate coordinated attack penalties respectively, this one negates DV penalties from wounds.

FOE-SCATTERING BLOCK
Cost: 2m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2; Type: Reflexive (Step 9)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Counterattack, Knockback
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Invincible Palm
The Solar casts her enemies aside, as they are unfit to strike such a legendary hero. The Solar invokes this Charm after using her unarmed Martial Arts Parry DV to defend against an attack. She spends two motes to insure that the enemy that delivered the blow is automatically knocked back a number of yards equal to ([the Solar's Strength + Martial Arts] x 2). It is still considered a counterattack, however, and is resolved in Step 9.
If this Charm is used against a perfectly immobile target, the force of the block rebounds back on the Solar, knocking her back instead of the attacking foe.At Essence 4, for two extra motes, this Charm's duration becomes “until next action.”

The SHS version of Leaping Dodge. Not quite as good, since it does count as an actual attack and therefore can be perfected away, and has a shorter distance than LDM. It is, however, slightly cheaper, and knocking your enemy around tends to be better than jumping away. It has the Essence 4 boost cause I think it's cool (although I'm a bit unsure of it). I'm also unsure of the knockback distance.

SUPERLATIVE THUNDER AND LIGHTNING ALACRITY
Cost: +(6m, 1wp); Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Obvious
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Thunderclap Rush Attack, Legendary Hero Defense
This Charm permanently enhances Legendary Hero Defense. While it is active, this Charm gives all unarmed Martial Art attacks the properties of Thunderclap Rush Attack. That is, a Speed of 3 and a DV action penalty of zero. At Essence 5, all Solar Hero Style Simple Charms also have these properties, again only after Legendary Hero Defense is active.

This is just off the top of my head today. Speed boost is good, but not amazing, since it's easy to get through jade. Reducing the speed of Simple Charms at Essence 5 is really good, as is reducing the DV penalty of all attacks to zero for the scene. Should it be Essence 4/5, and is total cost of 11m, 1wp reasonable?

From an iPhone in a waiting room srry.

I'm sure you know this but obvious charms are obvious magic what marks SHF as magically obvious?
it's not that foi doesn't provide good benifit it's just that 3m could be committed elswhere. I think shortening it's duration might be better and allow you to lower the cost.

I thought Solar Hero Form set you glowing like a Super Saiyan. Thats obviously magical to me.

Core Book 2E:

The Solar suffuses his body with the Essence of the Sun. He becomes a paragon of strength and skill, radiant with the power of a legendary hero returned.

So yes, it is appropriate to keep the Obvious tag that is already there, instead of removing it.

Plague of Hats:

Horizon-Hurling Tactic extremely similar to Crashing Wave Throw-as-modified-by-Shockwave Technique, only bigger.

What ? How ?

Sojko:

Plague of Hats:

Horizon-Hurling Tactic extremely similar to Crashing Wave Throw-as-modified-by-Shockwave Technique, only bigger.

What ? How ?

Pick someone up, throw them, they get hurt.

Plague of Hats:

Pick someone up, throw them, they get hurt.

You mean "make Martial Art Attack, then the opponent get hurt" like any other offensive MA charm ? Both are a projection, the similarity ends here. CWT allows for significantly higher damage, and keep control of the opponent, while HHT effectively ends the fight by sending the opponent to far away, and cannot see it's damage increased.

Sojko:

. CWT allows for significantly higher damage, and keep control of the opponent, while HHT effectively ends the fight by sending the opponent to far away, and cannot see it's damage increased.

They are as similar as Fists of the oldones and Crack the sky.

Plague of Hats:

Ascendant Battle Visage: No. It's still a martial arts Charm and subject to attack and armor restriction as such.

Unfrotunately, that's not the charm you wrote :

Plague of Hats:

+(Essence) successes to actions that prove combat prowess, including unarmed Martial Arts attacks, coordinating attacks, actions necessary to reach foes like Jumping and Join Battle.

So "Smashing the opponent with my goremaul" is an action of combat prowess and therefore profit from this charm. If you want to avoid people from using this MA charm to hit with a Daiklave, it needs to be re-written.

Plague of Hats:

One yard per success, because it is a static value.

It's not a static value according to the definition of those page 122. Also, since the number of yard you can jump is equal to your dice pool (and a willpower spent for an auto-succes gives 2 yards) it should indeed increase the jumping distance by 2 yards (and 4 horizontally, anyway). And how do you add success to the Dashing action ?

Sojko:

Unfrotunately, that's not the charm you wrote :

Yes, I know. You may have noticed this is all fairly short and curt. As if it were a work in progress.

Sojko:

It's not a static value according to the definition of those page 122. Also, since the number of yard you can jump is equal to your dice pool (and a willpower spent for an auto-succes gives 2 yards) it should indeed increase the jumping distance by 2 yards (and 4 horizontally, anyway). And how do you add success to the Dashing action ?

I'm not using house rules while I write these. Go read the First and Second Excellencies and Manual: Lunars.

Plague of Hats:

I'm not using house rules while I write these. Go read the First and Second Excellencies and Manual: Lunars.

1) I prefer using the definition of a term in the relevent rule section instead of a comment in the charm part.
2) I shouldn't have to check MoEP:Lunars for a rule about a solar jump charm, and I don't even have it.
3) I read this rule, and I'm afraid I don't see anything I didn't know. When you increase a Defense Value or another Static Value (which is a dice pool, halved), each success raise it by one. Jumping isn't a static value, though. It doesn't fit the definition of one, and isn't a halved dice pool.

Now if you admit you have to modify the charm to do what it's supposed to, I'm not going to comment on something I haven't even seen.

Sojko:

2) I shouldn't have to check MoEP:Lunars for a rule about a solar jump charm, and I don't even have it.

Write an angry letter to White Wolf, then. Until they change the way they publish rules, though, it might be helpful to actually have access to and read a supplementary rule that comes up if you're going to argue about it.

Worm Surfing Pankration
Cost: 3m 1 WP; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Counterattack*, Knockback*, Combo-Ok
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Dragon Coil Technique (Evil Darmani Version) Adamantine Fists of Battle

On the step you can invoke the 3rd Excellency a Solar Hero may invoke this charm against an attack that is proof against a form of defense or GRANT that attack that quality (unparryable, unsoakable, undodgeable).  Melee-range attacks will be resolved but at step 9 there is a clinch contest with the attacker allowed to substitute his relevant combat ability or Martial Arts.  If the solar wins the attacker is clinched.  If the solar loses the attacker may continue on as before or actually clinch the Solar but only from now on with their MA ability.  Any Clinch contest granted by WSP is able to be escaped without being won by the attacker but at the choice of leaving their weapon, if armed, or taking a -4 penalty to the natural weapon, if unarmed. This charm can be invoked on Step 9 as well against any defense bypassing attack. Ranged attacks, arrows or knifes, are rolled with extra successes on the attack as the value to be contested and success allowing to the Solar Hero to direct the attack to someone in his weapon's range.
*If there is a counterattack this charm acts as a perfect defense that pushes the attacker Strength feet away from the Solar.  If this is ranged the attack will be deflected.

Defeat Grants Possession
Cost: 5m 1 WP; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-Basic
Duration: Scene
Prerequisite Charms: ?


If a Solar Hero Defeats an attack or attacker.  This is knocking the attack down, disarming or damaging the weapon, or killing the opponent they may claim the spoils as owned and use them with their MA and Solar Hero.  The claims won this way are very easily understood to have been claimed by the Lawgiver and the means they were achieved as well with wits and an ability to intuit the connection of the man and the possession (Occult, Investigation, Lore, maybe even Socialize).

Plague of Hats:

Sojko:

2) I shouldn't have to check MoEP:Lunars for a rule about a solar jump charm, and I don't even have it.

Write an angry letter to White Wolf, then. Until they change the way they publish rules, though, it might be helpful to actually have access to and read a supplementary rule that comes up if you're going to argue about it.

Well, I managed to get my hands on it. It says I didn't need to do that since it works the way the Core says it does, and I'm right. 1 success is equal +2 to feat of strength or other unrolled use like jump distance.
So there, you're the one who should be checking the rules before talking down on others.