White Wolf Community

the Five Horsemen

rated by 0 users
This post has 8 Replies | 1 Follower

Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,403
Kamatej Posted: 1 Nov 2009 3:15 PM
I got my hands on Geist core rulebook just a couple of days ago, could someone please explain to me why did they have to be called horsemen? And the pale-white-gray thing... ?
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,464
Kamatej:
I got my hands on Geist core rulebook just a couple of days ago, could someone please explain to me why did they have to be called horsemen? And the pale-white-gray thing... ?


Mostly because the Sin-Eaters really don't care what they call them, as long as people know what they're talking about.  Perhaps because a Reaper would have to walk to get to all the dead souls it needs to claim, so they thought it would be better on horseback?  Perhaps the Horsemen terminology started spreading along with the Sin-Eater and Carnivale culture during the Catholic Heyday that birthed all of these Christianized words, even useful for non-Christians?

Even still, they can be called anything, really.  The Five Flying Spaghetti Monsters would power Ceremonies and cosmology equally well.  More seriously, your krewe could call them the Five Great Reapers, the Five Deaths, etc.  My Krewe theorizes that the "horsemen" are the Deathlords, so they use the terms interchangably but prefer the word Deathlord. 

Every culture has something that could work.  The Greeks might've called them the Children of Atropos.  The Egyptians might call them the Five Faces of Sokar.  It really depends on which affects your Krewe more--Sin-Eater slang or local/cultural terminology.
Life itself is only a vision.. a dream.. nothing exists, save empty space and you.. and you.. are but a thought..
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,403
Cleverest of Things:
The Five Flying Spaghetti Monsters


that's going in the chronicle then :) Other than that - I love Geist, it's becoming my second favourite after Promethean.
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,464
Kamatej:
Cleverest of Things:
The Five Flying Spaghetti Monsters


that's going in the chronicle then :) Other than that - I love Geist, it's becoming my second favourite after Promethean.


The two would be very different, but have a lot in common.  Both have been reborn after death (Though, Promies don't remember the time before).  Both tend to have little access to their own kind and their teachings (Though, Sin-Eaters have a slight advantage of numbers).  Both walk a lifestyle path rather than a political group. 

And really, anything is possible with the Five Keepers of the Thresholds.  If you have a scientific group, you can call them the Points of Entropy.  It just takes custom tailoring to your Krewe's Mythos.
Life itself is only a vision.. a dream.. nothing exists, save empty space and you.. and you.. are but a thought..
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,403
I know, but why horsemen to begin with?
Not Ranked
Male
Posts 74
Kamatej:
I know, but why horsemen to begin with?


The apocryphal Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse of (vague) religious tradition in the Book of Revelations.

Also, I found their colour choices odd, personally.
I recall them being...
Torn: Red (War)
Silent: Black (Famine)
Prey: White (Death)
Stricken: Green (Pestilence)
Forgotten: Blue (Chaos)
But Wikipedia disagrees, so...
Here, at the limit of this quiet world...
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,464
Kamatej:
I know, but why horsemen to begin with?


As I said, same reason they use the word Sin-Eater.  Unlike Mage, which has a single solid mythos and cosmology, Sin-Eaters tend to pick up what sounds cool.  A lot of their "culture-wide" terminology rose up during the rise of the CHristian and Catholic faiths.  While individual groups of Sin-Eaters may reject Christian-based terminology, but the words were cool enough to spread through the Twilight Network like Wildfire.  There weren't any other really appropriate terms, except perhaps the Five Grim Reapers.  I like the idea of using the Horsemen of the Apocalypse because it seems to suggest that he five lords of Death will have their hold on everyone--While the Red Horseman is content ripping apart single lives, eventually Violence will claim everyone it can, and many many die.  Eventually, thousands will die of deprivation, mischance, etc.. so much so that every single living soul will eventually be claimed by one of the Horsemen.
Life itself is only a vision.. a dream.. nothing exists, save empty space and you.. and you.. are but a thought..
Top 150 Contributor
Male
Posts 817
It sounds lik Kamatej just isn't familiar with the reference to Christian symbolism.  Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry for the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Not Ranked
Posts 38
GoldMatenes:
Forgotten: Blue (Chaos)
There actually is no blue horseman, and it's Grey for the Forgotten. Though what I find interesting is that the Forgotten threshold apparently didn't exist until some teenager made a forum post about her dreams, so maybe the Thresholds aren't really something that's as definite and obvious, like a vampire's Clan or a mage's Path.

But, the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse are The White Horseman of Conquest, carrying a bow and Crown, often thought to be Jesus, and the conquest not one of violence but of the spread of the Gospel and righteousness. 
The second is the Red Horseman, who would cause men to kill one another by sword and by violence. While the first horseman is to take over the world, this one is to make the people of the world fight. In Mortal Kombat. Civil war.
The Black Horseman is given a scale, which makes for a terrible weapon, but since he's not directly involved in the killing, that's fine. "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" which means economic downturn, and scarcity. Famine, basically.
Coming up the rear is the Pale Horse, and who's rider sat upon it was named Death, and Hell followed in his wake. While all of the Horseman are actually death in one way or another (Death from without, Death from within, and Death from starvation, this is the only rider that is actually named, and along with him comes DEATH. Hell itself rises as he rides past.)


Death's horse, by the way, is actually a sickly green colour, that's what the 'pale' refers to, not a light grey as is commonly depicted.

Sin-Eaters associate their deaths with one of these archetypal embodiments of Death. Basically, to Sin-Eaters these concepts (Torn, Stricken, Silent, Prey, and Forgotten) are something like the origin of Geists. They represent the Thresholds of death, much as geists represent a much more narrow aspect of Death. While the geist of the Burned Lover might be a spiritghost that represents lovers who are burned by passion and their spouses, the Red Horseman represents ALL violent death.

Perhaps the Five Horseman are the first human beings to die in the manner described? So ancient and old that the concept of death was new, and they had nothing more specific to bind to. Perhaps the Red Horseman is in fact Abel, struck from behind by his brother, fresh blood covering his sight as he slipped over and became the first of the Horseman?

Long post is long.
Page 1 of 1 (9 items) | RSS
Powered by Community Server (Non-Commercial Edition), by Telligent Systems