DICE: Hod:If your example ghoul was ghouled at the age of 30, and had been a ghoul for 80 years, he would age at this increased rate, giving him a life expectancy of about 5-6 years. That's enough to make any ghoul that old fear for his masters well being. It is my belief that you need to BE a ghoul for over 100 years. If you ghoul your 80 year old maths professor for 30 years than after that he would just age normally.
Hod:If your example ghoul was ghouled at the age of 30, and had been a ghoul for 80 years, he would age at this increased rate, giving him a life expectancy of about 5-6 years. That's enough to make any ghoul that old fear for his masters well being.
Ooops... you are correct on that point...
Mis-read Hod's math on that...
Math is not my strong suit...
But the rest is correct...
genty:If so, what happens to a ghoul incapacitated with bashing that receives a lethal damage? Does this equal one more bashing or how does it work?
genty:Also, just to remind me. How many days does it take for a ghoul/human to produce a blood point? Is it one per week?
A well fed/rested human/ghoul recovers one blood point per day (remember, The Kiss/feeding is not as traumatic as actually losing a pint or so of blood; sometimes the amount taken is more symbolic than overtly physical), as their quintessential essence re-balances itself. (In NWoD, they go for the possibly more plausable one point every two days, as opposed to one.)
genty:Does the rules for applying different kinds of damage work the same way for ghouls/mortals as they do for vampires? I.e. An incapacitated ghoul (from bashing) that receives more bashing damage starts to get lethal damage? I.e. after receiving 7x2 levels of bashing they are incapacitated with lethal damage, and after 7x2 + 1 they are beaten to death.If so, what happens to a ghoul incapacitated with bashing that receives a lethal damage? Does this equal one more bashing or how does it work?
DICE:A ghoul is human save for the blood. In every other way the normal rules apply so yes you must eat, drink and can be beaten to death just like a non ghouled mortal (with all the same system rules as a mortal).
The eating/drinking part is correct, but the gray area (in this specific regard) is from ghouls being able to soak lethal. They aren't exactly like ordinary mortals in this regard (using various references, principly Ghouls:FA), and are ascribed as being overall tougher than mortals (though certainly not like vampires or werewolves), as long as they have not gone too long without vitae; that is where this question gains some level of "giving the benefit of the doubt". But it could go either way, depending on what kind of game a person is running... Story trumps game mechanics, anyday... :)
JustJohn...again:The eating/drinking part is correct, but the gray area (in this specific regard) is from ghouls being able to soak lethal. They aren't exactly like ordinary mortals in this regard (using various references, principly Ghouls:FA), and are ascribed as being overall tougher than mortals (though certainly not like vampires or werewolves), as long as they have not gone too long without vitae; that is where this question gains some level of "giving the benefit of the doubt". But it could go either way, depending on what kind of game a person is running... Story trumps game mechanics, anyday... :)
DICE:You can soak lethal as long as you have a point of vitae and a dot of Fortitude. In the given example if the ghoul was not to soak the damage he/she would die but as long as the ghoul has those two things he/she CAN soak the damage.
? A ghoul doesn't need Fortitude to soak lethal; they can do that as long as they are ghouls and have at least one point of vampiric vitae (Vampire: Revised, pg 275). They've always been able to do that, ever since the shift to bashing/lethal/aggravated grades, as opposed to "regular"/aggravated of 1st Ed. . Kind of like how mummies can soak lethal, just for the "opposite" reason (mummies soak lethal because their life-force is so strong, whereas ghouls gain a small portion of undead status from their vampiric dominators). Again, though, story trumps, and soaking lethal doesn't necessarily prove-out the tolerating of lethal damage, but in the specific example (shifting "up" the health meter from bashing to lethal), it does make for a good counter-arguement...
JustJohn...again:A ghoul doesn't need Fortitude to soak lethal; they can do that as long as they are ghouls and have at least one point of vampiric vitae (Vampire: Revised, pg 275).
DICE:I stand corrected. Well them I would say you would soak it like normal. Stam+Fort+Armour. If you fail you lose.
genty: DICE:I stand corrected. Well them I would say you would soak it like normal. Stam+Fort+Armour. If you fail you lose. So what is your understanding of what happens when that 8th bashing damage is taken, or if that 8th damage is lethal? I will be using some house rules for soaking, lethal can only be soaked by armor for humans, armor+fortitude for ghouls. Fortitude will automatically soak bashing/lethal, one dot in Fortitude will allow you to (try) and soak aggravated with fortitude+stamina.
Whoa there, Nellie...
Not sure what Dice would say, but my response from earlier was predicated on the normal rules for soaking lethal (ghouls being able to do that) -- you didn't say anything about any house rules as a foundation; if you had, and mentioned that Ghouls don't naturally soak lethal in your game, then I would say pretty much what Dice said: the 8th level at lethal (with 7 bashing already) would be fatal in this case, as there is no foundation of survivability/resistance to lethal inherent to Ghouls, and Fortitude, as you described it, won't change that underlying foundation, unless you say it does.
JustJohn...again:Not sure what Dice would say, but my response from earlier was predicated on the normal rules for soaking lethal (ghouls being able to do that)
JustJohn...again:you didn't say anything about any house rules as a foundation; if you had, and mentioned that Ghouls don't naturally soak lethal in your game, then I would say pretty much what Dice said: the 8th level at lethal (with 7 bashing already) would be fatal in this case, as there is no foundation of survivability/resistance to lethal inherent to Ghouls, and Fortitude, as you described it, won't change that underlying foundation, unless you say it does.
genty:So the question in hand would be: What would happen to a ghoul (with blood) that has 7 bashing damage, and fails to soak one lethal. Would that lead to death, or would it use the rollover effect and be one lethal 6 bashing?
DICE: What I'm saying is the dam would tick over to lethal but you can still attempt to soak it. If you fail your soak roll and the lethal goes to far into the red you die. Bashing damage dealt 8 times = 1 lethal and 6 bashing. Bashing damage dealt 14 times = 7 lethal no bashing. Bashing damage dealt 15 times = goodnight sunshine. genty:So the question in hand would be: What would happen to a ghoul (with blood) that has 7 bashing damage, and fails to soak one lethal. Would that lead to death, or would it use the rollover effect and be one lethal 6 bashing? In this case I would say 1 lethal 6 bashing. Keep on hitting the ghoul tho and well lets just say he/she wont ever have to worry about blood again.
I should have clarified my later response to Genty; when I said I would have been "agreeing" with you, in was in the context of assuming a ghoul doesn't soak lethal -- *if* that were the case, then lethal after 7 bashing should be fatal, conceptually. However, Dice and I seem to agree on the bumping up with the lethal, predicated on the rules as written.
Genty: Much like Zeev, and a few others, if I say I "don't recall such an (x) ruling", that is pretty much saying with 99.999 percent certaintly that such a situation was not covered, directly, in the RAW. Hence, my supposition (which I indicated was supposition)... whew... hope that covers/clarifies things! :)
Now beat those ghouls...