Moros mages vs. Sin-Eaters (especially Necromancer Archetypes)

So, since Geist has is here (lovin' it, btw), was greatly intrigued between potential conflicts/partnerships between a Moros mage, whose power comes from the Stygian Watchtower and a Sin-Eater, whose power comes from a merging of... something... else.

Who has the greater, rightful claim to Death? Who is closer or more at home with Death?

Well, the Moros relationship with Death is more to the universal force, the idea that all things ultimately decay and die. They also tend to regard the dead as things that used to be people, but not people themselves (what this means about how they interact with ghosts will vary from person to person).

Whereas the Bound are tied to death as a defining factor of human life, and what it means to people (both before and after death). They are more about ghosts and the Underworld specifically, because they are tied to creatures which represent the archetypes of untimely death and how that seems to prevent people from accepting their deaths (as far as I know, there is no example of a ghost left behind by someone who died contented). In that sense, they are more about dying than Death (as well as helping people acknowledge and accept that they are dead) a fact that is strengthened by their own experience of death. Because of their interactions, they are probably more inclined to view the dead as people.

As for Necromancy (meaning "gain knowledge from the dead), they each conform to it in a different way. The Moros draw knowledge more from Death itself than from the actual dead, whereas the knowledge and power of the Bound comes entirely from the dead in every possible way. From that perspective, the Bound are more clearly necromancers.

Moros have the souls touched by the God of Death.    Sin-Eaters are part ghost.    One draws his power from Heaven, which rules over all of Creation, and the other's power is drawn from the Underworld, channeling the very power of their own deaths.

The Moros have the most right to command Death, but Sin-Eaters are Death.

In the end, its a pointless, circular argument that has no real answer.   Its all a matter of perspective.

Blunt Vorpal:

The Moros have the most right to command Death, but Sin-Eaters are Death.

In the end, its a pointless, circular argument that has no real answer.   Its all a matter of perspective.

This is probably the best way to describe it.  While Mages have magic and supernal ties to almost everyforce in the universe, they seem more to be calling, conjuring, and changing those forces, while the other supers embody them.  While a Mage has power over dreams and fate, a Changeling actually IS those things.  The same goes for Sin-Eaters and Werewolves.

However, I would say that a given supernatural race should be the master of its speciality.  What Mages lack in "natural" aptitude, they make up for in versatility.  A Moros could still use Forces, Prime, Mind, etc.  A Sin-Eater can use the Pyre-Flame and Passionate Keys, but it isn't quite the same.  If a being is in a niche, they should be the masters of that niche.  It would seem unfair if a Sin-Eater, who is a walking avatar of Death, to be less "Good at it" than a Mage, who also has the potential to be the master of everything else.

Of course, I would argue that the better indicator is power-stat.  A Moros Mage of Gnosis 9 would definately be more of a death-avatar than a Sin-Eater with Psyche 3.  The same goes when reversed--A weak Moros Mage can't hold an undead candle to a high Psyche Sin-Eater.

I also find it somewhat funny that none of these arguments exist on other boards.  You rarely hear Changeling players arguing over which game is the embodiment of Fate and Dreams.  They don't consider Mages as the be all end all, unlike the way Mages seem to have their egos questioned by the existence of other supers.  I think that's appropriate, though.  After all, the game is about hubris and human limits.

Symbols will mean a lot more to mages, since they are the basis of Supernal power.

Thus, they will always be concerned about the meaning of other supernatural powers, and how they fit into the mage's symbolic view of reality.

The others either have a more grounded understanding of how their powers work or basically don't care, and their powers are almost never the basis of their worldview.

This will be a thread relevant to the game I'm playing in. I'm playing a Moros Mage whose twin sister is a Sin-Eater (they were playing a game of Let's Drink the Stuff Under the Sink and she won), I'm sure that family dinners are full of very interesting conversation.

The distinction between dying and Death is very helpful; Endings versus your own demise.

Cleverest of Things:

I also find it somewhat funny that none of these arguments exist on other boards.  You rarely hear Changeling players arguing over which game is the embodiment of Fate and Dreams.  They don't consider Mages as the be all end all, unlike the way Mages seem to have their egos questioned by the existence of other supers.  I think that's appropriate, though.  After all, the game is about hubris and human limits.

Mage tends to try to answer the "Big questions" of WoD and since we have a toolbox view to it, everyone has a pet theory about how their WoD works and tends to share it to shee how other people think.

also, Mages tend to try to shoe horn everything into their world view and in my opinion, tend to have a skewed perceptive of WoD as a result (at lest, in my world of darkness they do).

Royal Heart:

they were playing a game of Let's Drink the Stuff Under the Sink and she won

Shock:

Cleverest of Things:

I also find it somewhat funny that none of these arguments exist on other boards.  You rarely hear Changeling players arguing over which game is the embodiment of Fate and Dreams.  They don't consider Mages as the be all end all, unlike the way Mages seem to have their egos questioned by the existence of other supers.  I think that's appropriate, though.  After all, the game is about hubris and human limits.

Mage tends to try to answer the "Big questions" of WoD and since we have a toolbox view to it, everyone has a pet theory about how their WoD works and tends to share it to shee how other people think.

also, Mages tend to try to shoe horn everything into their world view and in my opinion, tend to have a skewed perceptive of WoD as a result (at lest, in my world of darkness they do).

I'm going to take this opportunity to recommend Summoners for all the Mage ST's out there just for this reason. I can't imagine anything more frightening than springing the Men in Black or other things outside the traditional mage view of the universe..