Flowing Body Ascension and the Recent Errata

Bodhisattva:

Ah, that's a White Wolf Website issue and really doesn't have anything to do with us.

Yes unfortunately I'm not certain which arcane rituals can be used to effectively attract the attention of said peoples.  Oh well, maybe I'll try sacrificing a goat by mailing it 3rd class to White Wolf or something...

Morangias:

Making the errata into a periodically updated pdf document sounds like a very good idea. I'd greatly appreciate that.

I wholeheartedly agree. Having one file on my laptop that I can check or print out would be...dramatically better than any system of errata release I've ever seen, by any company, ever.

Bodhisattva:

I was toying around with the idea of putting together an Errata .pdf that you could download (updating it as necessary).  I haven't decided whether or not to do it just yet...

Holden:

Nobody likes hearing "Errata doesn't make money," but the fact is that it doesn't,

I agree giving away errata doesn't make money directly, but it can generate income if it's done well and in a timely fashion. If it hasn't already, WW needs to realize that there are customers who stop buying products because previous products were crappy and no fixes have been made.  

As with everyone else, this comment isn't targeted at the people writing the errata, but at the company.  Maybe they should pay freelancers to design errata and hand the errata out for free to help themselves as an organization.  If it costs them money to correct the mistakes, maybe they'll make fewer ones.

Holden:

Nobody likes hearing "Errata doesn't make money," but the fact is that it doesn't, and everyone involved with errata has to cut time out of their personal life to do anything with it. That can make it rather tricky at times.

molez:

And Microsoft don't make any money out of writing patches or updates to their product, but they recognise that in order to have a content and growing customer base, it is something that they need to do.

To be fair, Microsoft has dedicated programmers on the payroll every day.  They do not contract those products out to freelancers alone.  Those programmers are paid whether they're developing something new or patching something old.  Freelancers get paid by the job, not by the hour or the year.  That does make a significant difference.

Bodhisattva:

To be fair, Microsoft has dedicated programmers on the payroll every day.  They do not contract those products out to freelancers alone.  Those programmers are paid whether they're developing something new or patching something old.  Freelancers get paid by the job, not by the hour or the year.  That does make a significant difference.

Indeed. Everyone should recognize that there are legitimate economic disincentives to focusing on errata over essentially anything else.

Kukla:

Indeed. Everyone should recognize that there are legitimate economic disincentives to focusing on errata over essentially anything else.

We recognize that fixing mistakes doesn't directly generate income, but that doesn't mean it's more profitable to ignore them.  There's a cost associated with letting poor quality material circulate without fixing it.

I suspect there are a number of dead RPGs whose death is attributable, at least in part, to a lack of effort in rules-patching.  That's unverifiable, of course.

Anecdotally, I know of a number of folks who salute D&D at least in part because the errata is timely and extensive.  It doesn't earn money directly- but it does keep them coming back.  This is, perhaps, a way in which Exalted should not strive to be the "anti-D&D."

As others have noted, none of this is aimed at the freelancers or etc. with no ability to change The Way It Is.

I know of three specific people who decided not to take the sidereal book because the entire charm section was pretty much botched. If the errata had been out at that time, they most likely would have bought it. So sales do go down as a direct result of leaving stuff without errata.
I also know one person who decided not to take the Dragon-Blooded book.

Irked:

I suspect there are a number of dead RPGs whose death is attributable, at least in part, to a lack of effort in rules-patching.  That's unverifiable, of course.

I know people who have stopped buying entire lines of games because the publisher had inadequate quality control (before and after publication).  I assume we all know people like this.  And then there are lost customers due to poor recommendations (again, due to the quality of the material). 

Many people who frequent the boards like discussing rules, divining writer intent, etc., but most people just want to pull the game off the shelf and play.  Poorly designed rules decreases the fun of the game, and people don't like to play games that aren't fun.

Quorlox:

I know people who have stopped buying entire lines of games because the publisher had inadequate quality control (before and after publication).  I assume we all know people like this.  And then there are lost customers due to poor recommendations (again, due to the quality of the material). 

Many people who frequent the boards like discussing rules, divining writer intent, etc., but most people just want to pull the game off the shelf and play.  Poorly designed rules decreases the fun of the game, and people don't like to play games that aren't fun.

Two others in my gaming group stopped buying most Exalted books because of this, they got tired of it.  I have passed up a few books myself for this as well, so it is rather frustrating.  When I buy a book, I want a good product, not one I have to errata to make work. 

Bodhisattva:

molez:

And Microsoft don't make any money out of writing patches or updates to their product, but they recognise that in order to have a content and growing customer base, it is something that they need to do.

To be fair, Microsoft has dedicated programmers on the payroll every day.  They do not contract those products out to freelancers alone.  Those programmers are paid whether they're developing something new or patching something old.  Freelancers get paid by the job, not by the hour or the year.  That does make a significant difference.

No argument here. On the other hand, the way it's handled currently seems kinda unfair. Both to you freelancers of the Errata Team who have to sacrifice your free time for something that the company should be obliged to do, and to us customers for being reliant on your unpaid free time for something that the company should be obliged to do.

I think the "no errata" effect is less impactful than most people realize. There are anecdotal things that indicate a lack of updates on old books might lead to lowered sales, but let's not kid ourselves. White Wolf has been releasing books, with minimal or no errata, for quite some time. They have people who look at things like sales and marketing trends, and things of that nature. If, as a company, they thought the current schedule of releases-versus-errata lead to significantly decreased profits, they would change that schedule. They are not ignorant of their own sales figures, or trends within them.

Also consider that there is some chaos facor, let's call it X, that represents "lost sales due to disgruntled nerds." That is an unknown quantity. It might be huge, or it might be minuscule, composed of half-verbalized threats to the company and anecdotal, "a friend of a friend has sworn off Exalted forever" sort of things. There is another factor, let's call it Y, that represents the continued "cost" (I suppose "lack of income" would be more appropriate) of delaying releases. Y is quantifiable. Y is a knowable thing. Assuming WW is not a failing company (I do not believe it is), then they have no reason to expend valuable resources investigating X and must instead focus on Y. If X, even in broad obvious estimates, starts to eclipse Y, you bet your ass you'll see more timely errata.

Morangias:

No argument here. On the other hand, the way it's handled currently seems kinda unfair. Both to you freelancers of the Errata Team who have to sacrifice your free time for something that the company should be obliged to do, and to us customers for being reliant on your unpaid free time for something that the company should be obliged to do.

All fair points, but that seems like the natural consequence of only having a few staffers working on any given line at one time; you have some people, like John, that are basically doing the work of multiple people. The freelancers, while very capable, especially for Exalted, can't be given certain kinds of authority in order preserve direction and vision; however, because freelancers do a lot of work for WW, there are a lot of people who can't do certain kinds of work for the line. And you end up in a situation where unless WW gets some kind of massive windfall and starts hiring on more staffers, things are unlikely to change.

I guess if the staffers had some breathing room to work on this stuff... but then their line isn't making money and that's dangerous too. Then their bosses start making phone calls, and that sucks too.