JustJohn...again:Demons are not affected by the Delirium, just as full (and many partial) supernatural beings are unaffected, as well. Generally, only ordinary humans and ordinary animals are affected by the Delirium.
DICE:Is good to note that without a 5 point merit (kinfolk) mages are affected by the Delirium.
DICE: JustJohn...again:Demons are not affected by the Delirium, just as full (and many partial) supernatural beings are unaffected, as well. Generally, only ordinary humans and ordinary animals are affected by the Delirium. Is good to note that without a 5 point merit (kinfolk) mages are affected by the Delirium.
*Giggle* It is so funny... That presumption has been being posted here, and on other forums, for over 15 years, and no matter how many times it gets corrected, it still comes up...
Almost comforting, really...
Gives a sense of continuity, like the turning of the seasons...
As was already responded via the above poster, Mages are not affected by the Delirium; no (A)wakened being is. Now, the natural fear that would arise from seeing a rampaging death-machine come flying towards you? That's something else, entirely...
heinrich:In context to some gift's it is really up to how you think a gift works. Exorcism of the Theurges might be enough to force a Demon out of his mortal shell. Same is true with, "Flames of Hestia". But those are already mid-level gifts. Also, if the demon was forced to leave his vessel's body, "Spirit Ward" might force the demon to leave (it works on non-middle-umbra-entities like wraith, so it should also work on a demon without a body). In context to crossover there is one thing, that is different from Werewolf to all other WoD supernaturals. They may only learn a certain level of gifts, when they have reached the appropriate rank, which is only achieved by roleplaying. All other critters may spend experience points to reach powers of levels up to 5, which is usually the end of the line. They even may start with a level 5 power, if they spend Freebies on it. Garou never can have any powers above level 1 at character creation. So, fact is, that some pretty young vampires, mages, etc. may have powers at their disposal that are far more potent than any garou gift. However, if you limit garou and the other supernatural to the same power level (say, only powers up to level 3), garou usually can match with anything.
I agree with much of what you are saying, and certainly with the intent behind it. However, it is also important to remember that some other character types (Mages, Demons, Mummies, for example), can't start with powers above level 3, and those ranks of power are often necessary for "X" beings to have any plausable ability to affect others in a manner comensurate to the baseline abilities of others (though Demons do get a break in that department); in the case of Mages, achieving higher Arete is often more challenging than gaining Renown, as failure in a Seeking is more frequent than many people like to dwell on. And the game-mechanic stipulation on Garou Gifts is a balancing factor to their starting with extremely strong base-line abilities, particularly in the combat arena (multiple forms, a strong combat form, ability to soak almost any kind of aggravated damage, consistant fast healing, etc...). Now, I do find it reasonable that a ST could rule that an ability to exorcise a spirit might be usable against a demon inhabiting a body, but this would be a ST caveat; more strictly speaking, even Garou powers that extend to expelling wraiths would be hard debated on affecting a demon, as demons have no real spiritual component in either the Middle or Low Umbrae, being creatures of the True Void, and choose beings who have spiritual voids to begin with to enact their possession (making their "possession" of a being more akin -- and from a game mechanic POV, intentionally so --to the rebirthing rites of Mummy soul-shards in Mummy 3rd.). Now, not saying it couldn't conceivably work, just that there is a lot more to it than meets the casual eye; the garou in question is better off just having-at the demon, hacking him up, and hoping the fiend gets sucked back into The Void before it can find another host (because, claw-to-claw, even a Cliath can pose a serious threat to a demon, unless the demon is prepared...).
DICE: Can I get a page number on that? I can find the one that saids you need the merit to be immune but nothing to say that you are immune without it. Shapechanger kin (4-pt merit) The shapechanger blood has not stirred in him- at least not in the traditional way- but has left its mark. He's immune to the Delirum (the madness that claims those who see a werebeast's half-human form) MTA 296
It was errata'd two forums ago (in fact, it was errata'd twice, much to some peoples' annoyance)... and as my Bio says, if those old "Ask a question" whojums were still available today, from then, at least 90% of the OWoD debates on the current forum would not even exist, except as debate for alternate house-rules... but that's neither here, nor there at this point... *sigh* (If I still had my old computer... I had almost all those Q&A's saved... You have no clue how Windows 98 aggravated the fuck out of me... ) Anywho... The general guideline was that awakened beings - note the lower case "a"- (Vampires, Mages, Mummies, Changelings, Hunters [though not (h)unters], etc.) were not affected by the Delirium, due to their inherent supernatural natures. There was some debate concerning quisi-supernaturals (Ghouls, et al); some sources indicated yes, some indicated no; The Powers that Be left it to ST fiat. When Mage Revised came out, that specific reference was one of the first "whoa there, nellie" posted questions, and was resolved via mainpage (as it had been years before that). Take that for what you will. Those of us who have been here since day one (my friends and I were among the original run-testers for Vampire 1st, and play-testers for the first LARPS) and had been with OWoD through thick and thin remember what a lot of other people either forgot, or were not present for due to age. I don't do homework for this stuff anymore (as from this past reboot), as I have literally annoyed my household with book-digging and tote-hopping, and usually only get a grunt for a response online, or no acknowledgement at all. I fought "the good fight" across two old forums and learned a valuable lesson -- with some people, if they don't know, you can't tell'em -- so I don't bother on that level anymore. I relate what I know; if I can remember a book/page off the top of my head (which is more often than I care to admit), or know it was from the mainpage, then I share that. I don't go out of my way anymore... (except for Dark Ages: Mage, which reminds me I have had Prophet and other waiting for me to get off my ass and post some more shit, for like, ever...) *Getting down off of soapbox... too old to be up there, anyway...* Again, take it all for what you will...
DICE:Hay man. Thanks and I meant no offence.
Oh, none taken! And not trying to direct anything "negative" towards you, either, at all... :)
... just old and tired...
(Mind you, I'm not actually "old", per se... just "old" by White Wolf standards...) And as is mentioned in so many posts -- the Golden Rule trumps all. Use whatever rules you think are best, from any (combination) of editions, or of your own design, as long as it works for you and your group. Anything else (even shit I or anyone else posts) is just so much background noise... ... though it is good to sometimes listen to the old coots who've been around the WoD too many times to count... we occasionally are helpful in these regards... ;)
Now go forth and tortur-- uh... entertain the PC's...
JustJohn...again:Now go forth and tortur-- uh... entertain the PC's...
DICE:Tho I do remember killing a Corax by smoke inhalation when her flew over a forest fire and got to curious.
As long as it helped progress the story, or was used to "course correct" a problem player, I see no problem with that. The Corax have that shit comin' to them half the time, anyway... :)
JustJohn...again:(Mind you, I'm not actually "old", per se... just "old" by White Wolf standards...)
JustJohn...again:And as is mentioned in so many posts -- the Golden Rule trumps all. Use whatever rules you think are best, from any (combination) of editions, or of your own design, as long as it works for you and your group.
Alexander the Great