The Lie is Bigger than We Know...

I had an idea for a way to radically alter the true mythology about the Seers of the Throne's relations to the Exarchs, which I WILL present.  But, as I was thinking about posting it, I realized that it would probably lead to the same old, same old: Someone will say it's a good idea and offer a few tips, someone will say it sucks because it's not canon, and someone will remind me that it's my game and I can do with it what I want (especially in relation to the news out of ICC on the WW homepage).

So, while I wil greatly appreciate any feedback you all can give me on this idea, what I would prefer to make this is a repository for alternate theories on how magic works, the true nature of the Supernal World, and even alternative Mage political structures.  Something along the lines of Magical Traditions and Mythology.

So here's my first idea: the Ministers' Secret.

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The Four Great Ministers are supposed to directly channel the knowledge and wisdom of the Exarchs - they are in constant communion with them.  However, while the Exarchs are supposed to be gods, and the Ministers gods among men, there are several questions that come up, especially this: Why does the Minister title change hands when they are consumed by the intellect of theoretically omniscient beings?  Wouldn't the Exarchs be able to know that a Minister will follow them loyally, especially since they have total control over one?  And why would an Exarch allow an admittedly lesser mage take the place of his/her chosen champion?
The dark truth: The Ministers are in direct communion with the Exarchs, but they do not serve the Exarchs because the Iron Seals don't care about the Fallen World.

The Iron Seals and other Exarchs DID storm the Supernal Realms and take palaces and realms of their own, and the Oracles DID erect Watchtowers after the Fall.  What isn't known is that the most powerful Exarchs, upon taking their victory, no longer cared about the other side of the Abyss.  The lesser Exarchs were too weak to contact the Fallen World via the power of the Supernal - they could exert their will over it, but didn't have the magic to pierce it.  The Oracles had power and Mysteries to erect the Watchtowers, keeping a tether to the Fallen World so that they stayed somewhat human, remembering what they are fighting for.
On the other hand, while the Iron Seals had the power to manipulate the Supernal Realm AND to look down upon and influence the Fallen, they realized that they had gained what they sought in having a Supernal Citadel.  Upon perceiving how small the Fallen World was, they immediately turned away and began to sleep the sleep of the kings.  They were awash in Supernal power, and their whims were met there with but a thought.  This power couldn't be taken from them, so why would they care about the small, insignificant realms below.

The lesser Exarchs who fell established the Seers to worship their masters and mentors in the form of the Seals.  They worked hard to reestablish communion with the Supernal in the form of the Dream merit and their Arcana, among other things.  When they finally did, they saw visions of the Fallen World in chains.  What they didn't know was that these were the Dreams of the Exarchs, not a plan.  The Ten Ministers saw upon this, and began to work on this.  That was, until they realized the truth about the Seals - they HAD no designs on the Fallen anymore.  The Iron Seals didn't notice the intrusions - not only were they too grand and powerful, they were gaining more and more power from the Supernal's unlimited reservoirs.  The Ministers could steal as much power as the Fallen could handle and the Exarchs would never notice - which is exactly what they did.  Blinded by the madness of Dream and Destiny, the Ministers began to craft their Tyrannates and steal as much power from the Exarchs to control the Fallen World, the only one that was open to them thanks to the Abyss.  Guided by that initial dream, they crafted the Lie in all its forms, but the most deceived by it were the Seers who followed.

You may notice that 10 Ministers, and yet dozens of lesser Ministries exist along side the Great Ones; only the Four Great Ministers are supposedly in communion constantly with their lords.  That's a part of the Lie.  All of the Ministries that exist in the World are led by one of the Ten; the Greater Ones are part of a plan that the group have forseen in their Dreams and Prophecies within a seemingly collective idea between the Iron Seals.

In other words: it's all a delusion that they have become driven mad by - driven to the point of creating vast realms, with thrones carved from Supernal creatures into Supernal Anchors.  This is also a way to explain how one usurps a chosen of the Exarch - you don't.  Everyone who attempts to claim such a role is merely consumed to fuel the Minister's power.  In the lesser Ministries, the "Ministers" are puppet Tetrarchs who are devoured in the same way over time.  The Prelacies themselves come from this vast amount of Supernal Power; there are at least 10 sets of them, though only four are known to be in place.


One wonders about the Eleventh Iron Seal, the Gate.  This is a Lie cast over the Ministers - the Gate is conscious.  The Gate, as mistress of the Abyss, can control what comes through it by any means other than the Watchtowers.  He thus also controls the dreams and messages that pass from the other Exarchs, which she has corrupted via the Abyss and sent to those Ministers to control them as he sees fit.  She also maintains a Ministry and Minister of his own in the form of the Gatekeepers - but no one knows what purpose they serve.

There is only one Realm Supernal.  Humankind never grasped the true mutable nature of the Supernal.  Though they used Symbols to bridge the gap and to express supernal concepts, they became so driven by these symobls that they sought to categorize the whole of the universe with them.  Because five primary paths of life and magical pursuit existed, anyone who travelled to the Supernal would see it in a way flavoured by his own magic.  It is possible that every single being that enters the Supernal sees something unique.  Were there infinite paths in the oldest of times?

Both the Oracles and the Exarchs caused the fall.  Both sides of the Fall thought they were doing right, but both sides suffered from painful hubris.  The Oracles thought that an awakened human species was a good idea, but the Gods thought it was far too early.  The Exarchs wanted to enter the Supernal and help make the decisions that are far beyond any mortal mind, and the Gods thought this was foolish.  Regardless of which side ruled the Lost City, or which side really existed or not, it was human folly that caused the Fall.

There was no War.  Of course, in the height of its grandeur, the Lost City was embroilled in political conflicts, blamings, and betrayals.  When the empire is ruled by narcissistic, emotionless godlings with the power to shatter and rebuild worlds, and armies, with a thought.. well, the political climate couldn't be described as loving, but it couldn't really be called a War, either.  The horrible truth of the matter is the Ladder of Heaven was built, funded and engineered by all Mages together.  Those united under the Oracles wanted to reach Heaven to help the whole of humanity come with them, while the Exarchs wanted in for their personal gain.  It could even be said that both sides might've planned to betray the other after the mass Ascension.  However, when the Ascension failed, the people left behind quickly began blaming each other, thus causing the rift between the Pentacle and the Exarchs.  They even now claim their own innocence in the matter, but in this dark world, no one is innocent.

The Oracles and Exarchs are dead.  It is the ultimate human hubris to think that a bunch of rowdy and selfish mages can show up n the sacred infinite of the Supernal and cast down any and all they find there.  Quite simply, this is wishful thinking.  When the first handfuls of human souls crossed over (Undoubtedly the Oracles and Exarchs, who sought most greedily to reach their own Heavens), they found the vast and terrible beings that had been the Masters of All since the beginning, end, and beyond of all things.  In the split seconds of their Supernal existences, the Ascended Mages exulted in their allness, and reached out to destroy their opposition.  But men are still as ants in the Kingdom of the Old Ones.  With less than a barely concious reflex, the Gods sundered the Oracles and Exarchs to pieces, leaving only the head of their demonic reality-bridging machine left as a mark of where humans once set foot in the Kingdom of the Gods.

The Abyss is our curse.  For what humankind sought to do, or undo, we have been punished.  The Gods saw what manner of horror that human kind is capable of.  Where once they saw potential, they now only saw corruption.  And so, they sealed our minds and souls away from the rest of the Supernal.  The Gods, not the Exarchs nor the shattering of reality, caused the Abyss.  It was created to keep the infectious disease that is humanity from spreading.  The Gods do not want to have to suffer the pitter patter of little feet in their palaces.

The Celestial Ladder still works.  Indeed, every single Mage has been there.  Despite the fragility of mankind and its Atlantean Mages, their creation was somehow a work of genius that the Gods were either unable or unwilling to destroy.  By somehow compressing its core in a way such that it is all things, in all places, at all times, the Celestial Ladder was meant to be able to take you anywhere, including into the depths of the Supernal.  Somehow, even after the Abyss was created, the connection was not severed.  The Ladder, a tall and magically engineered spire that pierces through every single place and time, is the very path that Mages use to Astral Travel, and to even catch a glimpse of the Supernal in their Awakening.  The Mages call them Watchtowers, because they believe that there are seperate Supernal Realms, each with certain flavours.  In truth, there is but one endless and eternal Supernal.  Indeed, the Watchtowers are so central a focus of these realms because they are the ONLY focus in these realms--the rest of it is endless divinity.  However, because the Supernal is so strongly imprinted by subjective symbolism, each mage sees it through the reflection of one of the Oracles or Exarchs, as well as their own personal interpretation.  Mages often bulk them into five distinct categories, associated with paths and realms.  But these distinctions are human error.  There is only the endless Supernal Realm, with all of its Supernal inhabitants.  And human kind cannot even come close to fathoming the whole truth of it.  Mages alone bear that pilgrimage, to slowly remember the road to Heaven.

A very interesting idea... It does of course, raise the question of why we have five specific paths, with 2 Ruling and 1 Inferior Arcana... is THIS a reflection of the Oracle's will, or are there other Paths that few walk, and that are so close to an existing one that it is assumed that only five exist?  Just raising the question as to what implications it has - still, very good idea!

The only way through the abyss is through the Celestial Ladder and onward towards Ascension.  The paths are the resonance left behind by the Exarchs and Oracles, which permanently affected the visions that the Ladder is capable of granting an Awakening Mage.  However, Mages do not actually travel through the supernal realm in their Awakening, they just experience the Realm through the Ladder without leaving it.  As such, their mind uses its subjective/symbolic associations to create a vision of the Supernal.  Everyone that has used the Ladder has left their name in it the first time they go there.  Only Astral Travellers often find the Ladder a second time, as they travel into the Dreamtime.

Also keep in mind how open minded the Supernal Realm is, when a few thousand unique souls view it.  One man sees a labyrinth of his own mind, a maze filled with other voices and other opinions, where he is exposed and naked to their prying thoughts, with himself at the Center.  Another man sees a blasted landscape of bleak gray dust, at its heart a black iron tower clawing its way from the land into the heavens.  Both would be called Pandaemonium, when viewed in the current magical paradigm.  However, with different associations, they could point to different places.  What if the first was the winding maze of Arcadia, filled with invisible faerie folk?  What if the latter was the Aether of some nihilstic scientist who studies dark matter and dark energy as the source of all things?

EndlessKng:

The dark truth:

The Exarchs are actually Infernally tainted.   They're the reason that sin is reflected in the Supernal - they brought it there, the ultimate impurity.    Its also why the Exarchs crave followers - the more powerful their pawns are in the Fallen World, and the more sacrifices the Seers make in the names of their dark gods, the more power the Exarchs recieve in Heaven.    The Exarchs don't just rule over the Lie... they are the Supernal reflection of lies!  

In short - the story of the Exarchs storming the Supernal through the Ladder is the story of Lucifier storming Heaven to confront God... only to find out that the Empyrean Throne was actually empty, and Heaven's denizens couldn't care less.   Thus, the Devil rules the world without opposition.


Here's the catch, though:  without the actions of the Seers continually supplying power, and without the Lie being actively maintained... the Exarchs are powerless.   Should the Pentacle succeed in destroying the Seers, and Awaken (or at least turn into Sleepwalkers) a great many people, then the Exarchs fall.   Without the Seers, the gods are nothing.   Their power is nothing.  And, should they lose their support, they'll be rejected by reality, rejected simply because their nature is incompatable with anything but Hell and the Abyss.   The vast majority of the power they take goes into maintaining their Supernal sanctuaries.

The Exarchs hate the Pentacle because they're fighting for their very existance.   The so-called Ascension War is nothing more that a desperate fight for survival, corrupting the world just to extend their pathetic lives one more day.  

Some "minitruths:"

The Abyss and the Lower Depths are the same thing.  When the Fall occurred, the Depths were able to seep into the gap, surrounding the Fallen Depths.  The Abyss still wants to eat everything in the Fallen, but in doing so, it may be able to grab the connections to the Supernal through the Watchtowers and Mages.

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The Pit that the Lucifuge summons their demons from is actually THE Pandemonium.  Benediction summons from Aether.  What will Mages do when they discover this true connection?

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Somewhere in the Astral Plane is the far disconnected realm of the Celestial Ladder.  It somehow pierces Oroborous and leads to the Supernal (or possibly the Sixth Watchtower).  Is there any connection to this discarded realm?  And what kind of creatures exist there, guarding or traveling the Ladder?

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The Exarchs have captured the Watchtowers, but its all for naught.  The Oracles are fused with their own thrones and towers, and cannot do anything but Awaken those souls to whom the power is drawn.  The Exarchs cannot change this - but maybe they can build their own?

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More Mages Awaken to the Abyssal Watchtowers than is known.  Many of them ARE actually Banishers.  What becomes of the rest?

Why thank you Endlesskng for using and giving credit for my quote of michel j. fox's character from the movie "For Love Or Money"

Ranger:

Why thank you Endlesskng for using and giving credit for my quote of michel j. fox's character from the movie "For Love Or Money"

I honestly had no idea that it was a quote from anywhere else... I just saw it in a post of yours and thought you'd come up with it.  If there's a problem, just let me know and I can remove it.

As to another possible secret of the Mage universe:

Mages aren't chosen by the Watchtowers or Oracles or Exarchs - they are chosen BY the Abyss.  The secret is, the Abyss can't stop the exchange of energy between the Supernal and Fallen Worlds - it actually happens on its own through means unknown even to the Abyss or Mages - it just happens.  The Abyss needs the Supernal energies in greater quantities than the natural flow that happens, however, and while it can't take the energy DIRECTLY from the Supernal, they CAN claim the Fallen World and its individual inhabitants.  Therefore, the Abyss and its inhabitants create "thin points" within the Abyss, allowing a human to touch the Supernal and create a permanent tether; then, the Abyss begins claiming the Supernal power as the Mage uses his power.  That's right - magic fuels the Abyss.

Thats... a really... interesting concept. So does that mean we can the kill the abyss? 

If not we can make it bleed....

THEN WE CAN KILL


Full quote"If it bleeds we can kill it... if it can't bleed we will make it bleed.... then we can kill it!"

Ranger:

Thats... a really... interesting concept. So does that mean we can the kill the abyss? 

If not we can make it bleed....

THEN WE CAN KILL


Full quote"If it bleeds we can kill it... if it can't bleed we will make it bleed.... then we can kill it!"

It's a good question - but then you realize that the only way to "kill" the Abyss would be to kill every mage and then kill the ones as they Awaken - not only is it a type of genocide, but it would require some way to reliably hunt down Mages.  Aura sight could work, as well as the fifth dot of Aegis Kai Doru Status and Unseen Senses, but would the possessor of those skills be able to kill mages?  And what of Artifacts - are they attracting the power of the Abyss as well?

Just things to consider...

EndlessKng:

but then you realize that the only way to "kill" the Abyss would be to kill every mage and then kill the ones as they Awaken - not only is it a type of genocide, but it would require some way to reliably hunt down Mages. 

A sacrifice I am willing to make. jk

Ranger:

EndlessKng:

but then you realize that the only way to "kill" the Abyss would be to kill every mage and then kill the ones as they Awaken - not only is it a type of genocide, but it would require some way to reliably hunt down Mages. 

A sacrifice I am willing to make. jk

Seriously though, THAT is the horror of that idea.

Another one:

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There is no Abyss.  The Abyss IS the Lie.  It is the literal manifestation of the Lie, spoken backwards through time.  Mages CAN wield power within the presence of Sleepers if they try hard enough.  Go ahead, do it.

EndlessKng:

There is no Abyss.  The Abyss IS the Lie.  It is the literal manifestation of the Lie, spoken backwards through time.  Mages CAN wield power within the presence of Sleepers if they try hard enough.  Go ahead, do it.

OMG you just quoted what my ST told me last night. lol

Ranger:

EndlessKng:

There is no Abyss.  The Abyss IS the Lie.  It is the literal manifestation of the Lie, spoken backwards through time.  Mages CAN wield power within the presence of Sleepers if they try hard enough.  Go ahead, do it.

OMG you just quoted what my ST told me last night. lol

your ST is nothing but a puppet for greater things.. :P

I have another, shattering idea on setting changing it into little tiny pices - there isn't any Supernal! All the magic comes from the Awakened themselves, from the "enlightenment" ( or rather, the madness ). Awakening gives Paths because one's mind can so little comprehended in limitless potential unleashed, that he need to limit itself somehow, just to "not go crazy". Arcana are "safe madness" to the ultimate potential, that uncovered, would possible mean - "everything is possible if you think it is".

Abyss isn't a place, at least without the Mages. It's they madness uncontrolled, changing reality using dark side of they psyche. Abyss entities exists without Mages, just like once casted spell can linger eternity. Abyss wants to "fill" reality beacuse Mages want to "create".

The Artifacts are leftovers of previous "Insane", but could also been just object stucked with that power, just like Relict can get magic. Summoned beings from Realms are just avatars of Mages personal view on Arcana.

Atlantis was, is or will be - it depends on how you look on it. The Tapestry is based on cycles of Universe, each looking like parallel universe ( thanks Grant Morrison for "Invisables") and in each that cycle Atlantis was built, some time in history - one time in mythic age, one is in "present" ( or rather it counterpart in cycle ), in other it will be built. In some cycles Atlantis was multiple kingdoms.  Maybe it was the "Celestial Ladder" event ended first cycle, and started the now rhythm of Universe? ( Yes, this model is a bit like the "Schrödinger Atlantis" of Lankin, but with , I think, good background ). But Mages ( at least under Archmaster ) can't jump between the cycles, only Oracles and Exarchs could.

And Oracles and Exarches - as Supernal Realms don't exists, they aren't "above", if they exists at all. They are "outside of system", outside the cycles of universe. They just aren't anywhere "here", even for Mages.