The spawning of monsters

I hace trhee questions:

This is the spell from 1st Edition, right?

I think that Genesis has replace it for good in 2nd.

Now, if you, for some reason, want to allow such spell into your games:

Elyon:

this spell works even in exalted beings?? 

Yes.

Elyon:

the resultant being can be destroyed with sapphire or adamantium countermagic??

No. You can only counter active spells. The creature is Permanent and independent form the magi that spanws it.

Elyon:

would happen if in the moment to spend the essence of the spell I spen one estra mote to change the spell to holy property? This according to the charm of hundred facets of enlightment

This is in my opinion:

1) If one of the parects was a CoD, the child is born dead. Also the child could be born withouth the CoD mutation, but i found this unlicly.

2) If none of the parents was a CoD, probably nothing happens. You could give such a greature some kind of Holy mutation or Merit (like Holy Mien) if you feal generous, but again, that is less likly to happened.

You shouldn't use that spell in 2e, but if you did combine the spell and Charm that way, nothing would happen.

Heh I loved that spell, gave a new meaning to the "Scarlet" Empress as well.

The worst thing about that spell, was that it actually gave the child, not only ALL powers of both parents, but also the highest Permanent Essence rating of either! WTF?? 0_0

Dex

Hand-of-Omega:

The worst thing about that spell, was that it actually gave the child, not only ALL powers of both parents, but also the highest Permanent Essence rating of either! WTF?? 0_0

Dex

Yes, it was kind of crap. If you were a summoner you could make really powerfull beings into a short time.
Fortunatly we have Craft:Genesis in 2nd edition, which is balanced and more fun to use. If

I always liked the idea of this spell in 1e, but the implementation made it too powerful. I was kind of disappointed to not see a nerfed version that could work with Craft: Genesis in the White Treatise.

Perhaps it could be limited to only one Charm from each parent, but have the creature be sterile, and have the Servant Limit Break from the demon summoning rules? This way, you could still spawn broods, but it will be costly.

Edit: Then again, that doesn't interact with the Genesis system, so maybe that's not such a good idea.

If you want to create a creature then the best way is to buy Craft Charms, not spells. Mixing spells and crafts and charms is more a problem than a solution. The Genesis system is simple and works fine. Although, it would be nice to see expanded ules about it. Your have a lot of Artifacts for samples when you want to create an object, but only very few and limited examples of craft Genesis, so sometimes is difficult to evaluate the rating of some creatures the PCs want to make.

Maese Mateo:

If you want to create a creature then the best way is to buy Craft Charms, not spells. Mixing spells and crafts and charms is more a problem than a solution. The Genesis system is simple and works fine.

I'm not sure I agree. Either you are running breeding programs to modify an existing lifeform (which takes a lot of time), or you creating new life from whole cloth, which requires an extensive crafting focus to plan and create the necessary genesis labs (which are Artifact 5).

I also don't see the problem with mixing Charms and spells. The Invisible Fortress was built, although indirectly, by using sorcery to summon demons. There also exist spells that can build Manses. The precedent exists.

DarkWolff:

I also don't see the problem with mixing Charms and spells. The Invisible Fortress was built, although indirectly, by using sorcery to summon demons. There also exist spells that can build Manses. The precedent exists.

Summon demons is not directly using sorcery to craft something.

Now, how can you solve a situacion where you have a spell that you must use at the very moment of craft while at the same time trying to use your craft charms?...Because you can't combo sorcery, this means that except the spell is really good, is not worth it, because you are loosing your charms use for it.
Spells like the terrestial one that instantly repair an objetct are good examples of spells that are better than charms to do something. Except when you are so powerfull than your craft charms are cheapper than casting a whole spell.
Other good example is the spell that you said, the one that creates manses...but again, creating a manse is very spencive and time consuming, in that case, the spell is the better way to go because is not only cheapper in Resourses, but also because you don't have to roll, so you don't need to use any craft charm to better do your job.

Now, while crafting artifacts or monsters, you should be more carefull in what you choose.

Maese Mateo:

Summon demons is not directly using sorcery to craft something.

I agree, which I why I stated it indirectly does so. I'm half-suggesting a rebuild of Spawning of Monsters that would allow an indirect benefit to Genesis, although I don't know how at the moment.

Maese Mateo:

Other good example is the spell that you said, the one that creates manses...but again, creating a manse is very spencive and time consuming, in that case, the spell is the better way to go because is not only cheapper in Resourses, but also because you don't have to roll, so you don't need to use any craft charm to better do your job.

Genesis is also very expensive and time consuming and, like manses, it makes sense it to be this way. By your logic, the idea or theme of the spell does make sense (again, that's what I really care about, not the mechanics).

Spawning of Monsters does not exist in second edition.  It doesn't exist for a very good reason.

DarkWolff:

Genesis is also very expensive and time consuming and, like manses, it makes sense it to be this way. By your logic, the idea or theme of the spell does make sense (again, that's what I really care about, not the mechanics).

Well, crafting artifacts is also spencive, but we don't have a spell for making it easier or cheapper...And because Genesis is a craft, maybe is good to appy the same limitations.
For creating powerfull servants you have Imbue Amalgam.

Maybe you can use some spell that let's you add mutations to someone and make it breed true. Of course, you can do the same with Wyld-Shaping Technique if you are a Solar. Something like (Sorcerer's Essence x2) Mutation Points could work.

Also, a good idea could be a spell that temporary creates a Genesis Lab into a 3-5 dots Manse (Solar Circle Spell for sure) but without the benefits of a First Age Factory Cathedral. So, while you can't work faster without charms or external help, you can make Genesis creatures from 1 to N/A level. The Duration of the spell could be "one task" or something like that. Or maybe it lasts for one season and you can renovate the spell with a minor ritual onece per season.

Hekatonkhire:

Spawning of Monsters does not exist in second edition.  It doesn't exist for a very good reason.

Yup. I totally agree with you, but maybe other people thinks different from us and want to allow it in their games. in which case a suggest make a similar but whole new spell. like the one i said in my prior post about giving Mutation points.