Help with some Psychic powers (probably broken)

My group is taking a short break from Exalted, but two of my players want to play some WoD while we're out.  I played a few years ago, but that was just with Vampire for the most part.

They want to play mortals during WWII on the front lines.  However, I intend them to become Sin-Eaters (I haven't finished the book yet) by killing them along the way.

But until then, I want to have them be physics, as per Second Sight.  I remember it mentioning ealy in GtS that those who get the Bargain usually have some access to death.

There are only two players.  Anyways, I decided they should both have the see/communicate with ghosts physic power (from Second Sight, don't remember exactly what it's called) and some other unique powers.

One of them is for the medic, and he has the power to grab ghosts and rip apart their corpus, and then fuse that corpus onto a human body missing the same part.  So he could take apart a ghost's arm and fuse it to a man who lost his arm.  In effect, this would cost him one willpower and allow him to make a Dexterity + Medicine/Occult roll to rip material from a ghost and heal someone with it, recovering anything from bashing to aggravated health levels.  Probably a bit powerful, but I do want this to be somewhat of a "super healing" as compared to how supernatural healing usually goes.

The second has the power to enter a grapple with someone, and on his turn spend one willpower to instantly kill them, by ripping their soul out which immediate becomes a ghost.  Said ghost fades away after a few minutes if it doesn't have sufficent reason to get an ancor.  Any supernatural being that doesn't have a soul (Vampires, Werewolves, Prometheans) would be completely uneffected.  Again, I want it to be a very simple "instant kill" if he can get his hands on you (keep in mind this is during WWII, so it isn't useful from 100 yards away).

But I'd like some advice on how to work some of this stuff.

Also, I would GREATLY appreciate some ideas for stories to run.  It's going to start in a battlefield, but I haven't thought much besides that yet.  Still reading books as it is.

deathmatchfm:

Any supernatural being that doesn't have a soul (Vampires, Werewolves, Prometheans)

if i remember correctly the promethean is the only one without a soul.  I would make the healing ability 2 bashing perr success or 1 lethal.  healing agg is very very powerful


also the grappling ability seems rather broken i would make him have to roll a wits+occult with successes equal to or higher than his target's resolve for it to be effective otherwise it is far too broken. 

We're coming off of Exalted.  My view of power balance may be a bit off.

As for vampires and werewolves not having a soul, I remember stuff about them going through the Hedge in Changeling the Lost.  They don't get pieces of their soul ripped off when they go through.  So they might have souls, but I always assumed that they didn't (vampires being dead, werewolves not being human).

Healing agg is indeed powerful.  But I want him to be able to put people's arms back on or repair missing lungs.  It'd have to be agg healing to have the level of power I want.  And multiple points at that.  The downsides are that a ghost with the corresponding corpus parts has to be present.

For the grappling instant-kill, well, I want it to be that good.  Let him rip Nazi souls out quickly.  If there is a reason that Wits + Occult would work (those don't even seem like he appropriate attribute + ability to me) to make this better, let me know why.

deathmatchfm:

As for vampires and werewolves not having a soul, I remember stuff about them going through the Hedge in Changeling the Lost.  They don't get pieces of their soul ripped off when they go through.  So they might have souls, but I always assumed that they didn't (vampires being dead, werewolves not being human).

Werewolves should have a soul a vampire may not and i think that may be up to STs discretion.  I can't speak for changeling.  Werewolves are part-human and part-spirit which means they hold onto their humanity quite a bit. 

deathmatchfm:

Healing agg is indeed powerful.  But I want him to be able to put people's arms back on or repair missing lungs.  It'd have to be agg healing to have the level of power I want.  And multiple points at that.  The downsides are that a ghost with the corresponding corpus parts has to be present.

Agg barely exists in nWoD aside from specific things doing it and staging up.  A missing arm is lethal and a missing lung would also still be lethal.  him not being able to breathe due to the missing lung would be a point of agg. (or at least it would dictate a point from my view point)

deathmatchfm:

For the grappling instant-kill, well, I want it to be that good.  Let him rip Nazi souls out quickly.  If there is a reason that Wits + Occult would work (those don't even seem like he appropriate attribute + ability to me) to make this better, let me know why.

the roll to rip out a soul should involve an occult roll seeing as you aren't ripping out his heart (which would be brawl)  the reason i set it where he has to overcome the resolve is because that is the resistance trait for things of this nature.  i assume it should be Wits+Occult because wits is the finesse or quick thinking trait and occult fits properly with the bill. 

deathmatchfm:

One of them is for the medic, and he has the power to grab ghosts and rip apart their corpus, and then fuse that corpus onto a human body missing the same part.  So he could take apart a ghost's arm and fuse it to a man who lost his arm.  In effect, this would cost him one willpower and allow him to make a Dexterity + Medicine/Occult roll to rip material from a ghost and heal someone with it, recovering anything from bashing to aggravated health levels.  Probably a bit powerful, but I do want this to be somewhat of a "super healing" as compared to how supernatural healing usually goes.

This should be a time-consuming process, affixing a severed ephemeral limb to a material being.  The rip can be an instant action, but attaching the pieces should be an extended action (With at least 1 minute per roll).  While there is the drawback of needing a ghost for raw materials, consider the volume of ghosts that would be occupying a WWII battlefield at any given time.  If it was a different setting, the drawback would be sufficient, but to balance it out you probably want the healing to be at least a little time-consuming.

deathmatchfm:

The second has the power to enter a grapple with someone, and on his turn spend one willpower to instantly kill them, by ripping their soul out which immediate becomes a ghost.  Said ghost fades away after a few minutes if it doesn't have sufficent reason to get an ancor.  Any supernatural being that doesn't have a soul (Vampires, Werewolves, Prometheans) would be completely uneffected.  Again, I want it to be a very simple "instant kill" if he can get his hands on you (keep in mind this is during WWII, so it isn't useful from 100 yards away).

This sounds like an overpowering maneuver.  I'd say make a standard grappling roll (It's got something to do with Strength, check the core book) for an overpowering maneuver, to see if it works.  If you want the player to have a higher dice pool, tack a skill onto it.

Haven't read the Vampire book yet, so I don't know what their soul status is.  As for werewolves, they're half-spirit, which is similar to a soul I suppose.  It gets a little confusing when it comes down to Twilight versus Shadow, so that's really up to you.  I'd probably say that such a soul-severing on a Werewolf robs them of their shape-shifting nature (Which would lock them in the form they were using and prevent the use of gifts).  Heaven help your players if they decide to rip the soul out of a Forsaken in Gauru form.

deathmatchfm:

The second has the power to enter a grapple with someone, and on his turn spend one willpower to instantly kill them, by ripping their soul out which immediate becomes a ghost.  Said ghost fades away after a few minutes if it doesn't have sufficent reason to get an ancor.  Any supernatural being that doesn't have a soul (Vampires, Werewolves, Prometheans) would be completely uneffected.  Again, I want it to be a very simple "instant kill" if he can get his hands on you (keep in mind this is during WWII, so it isn't useful from 100 yards away).

This is still an insanely overpowered ability. Even a person with a supernatural template wouldn't be this OP without being an Archmaster. I would limit it to a deathtouch.

CJC:

This should be a time-consuming process, affixing a severed ephemeral limb to a material being.  The rip can be an instant action, but attaching the pieces should be an extended action (With at least 1 minute per roll).  While there is the drawback of needing a ghost for raw materials, consider the volume of ghosts that would be occupying a WWII battlefield at any given time.  If it was a different setting, the drawback would be sufficient, but to balance it out you probably want the healing to be at least a little time-consuming.

I intended it be a slow medical treatment.  Faster than natural healing, but nothing usable in combat.  Basically, it's "medical treatment" that can cure even crippling injuries.

CJC:

This sounds like an overpowering maneuver.  I'd say make a standard grappling roll (It's got something to do with Strength, check the core book) for an overpowering maneuver, to see if it works.  If you want the player to have a higher dice pool, tack a skill onto it.

I'll check out an overpowering maneuver and see if it fits the bill for what an instant kill should be.

CJC:

Haven't read the Vampire book yet, so I don't know what their soul status is.  As for werewolves, they're half-spirit, which is similar to a soul I suppose.  It gets a little confusing when it comes down to Twilight versus Shadow, so that's really up to you.  I'd probably say that such a soul-severing on a Werewolf robs them of their shape-shifting nature (Which would lock them in the form they were using and prevent the use of gifts).  Heaven help your players if they decide to rip the soul out of a Forsaken in Gauru form.

To me, Werewolves aren't human.  They were human, to a point, but after the First Change they're now a mix of flesh and spirit.  I will not allow them to have their souls pulled out.  I assume they have something else that functions as a soul instead.

Vampires do not have souls in my book, so they're immune to it. 

Prometheans don't have souls, as the point of the game is getting one.  I believe Changlings don't have souls either, or theirs are twisted to the point of making them inhuman.  Mages DO have souls, but I'll allow their Gnosis as resistance to the instant kill.

Epimetheus:

This is still an insanely overpowered ability. Even a person with a supernatural template wouldn't be this OP without being an Archmaster. I would limit it to a deathtouch.

It seems insanely over powered, but in the World of Darkness not everything runs by the book.  Sometimes people have creepy, extremely dangerous powers.  For the purpose that it'll serve, it's plenty balanced.  It can help him kill people, if he gets his hands on them.  It cuts combat short, but there is more to the game than fighting.  And it doesn't work on most supernatural creatures, so even then it isn't a big help.  But I want something big and bad.

c34r34lk1ll3r:

the roll to rip out a soul should involve an occult roll seeing as you aren't ripping out his heart (which would be brawl)  the reason i set it where he has to overcome the resolve is because that is the resistance trait for things of this nature.  i assume it should be Wits+Occult because wits is the finesse or quick thinking trait and occult fits properly with the bill. 

You've convinced me there.  That makes sense to me.

deathmatchfm:

I intended it be a slow medical treatment.  Faster than natural healing, but nothing usable in combat.  Basically, it's "medical treatment" that can cure even crippling injuries.

i thought you were intending it to be used in combat.  which is why i said 2 bashing or 1 lethal per success. 

deathmatchfm:

Epimetheus:

This is still an insanely overpowered ability. Even a person with a supernatural template wouldn't be this OP without being an Archmaster. I would limit it to a deathtouch.

It seems insanely over powered, but in the World of Darkness not everything runs by the book.  Sometimes people have creepy, extremely dangerous powers.  For the purpose that it'll serve, it's plenty balanced.  It can help him kill people, if he gets his hands on them.  It cuts combat short, but there is more to the game than fighting.  And it doesn't work on most supernatural creatures, so even then it isn't a big help.  But I want something big and bad.

It does work on most supernatural creatures the only ones without souls are prometheans. It doesn't just seem insanely overpowered it is.

deathmatchfm:

It seems insanely over powered, but in the World of Darkness not everything runs by the book.

I think you're missing two key points in the transition:

1)  If you make these things too powerful, they aren't going to want to be Sin-eaters.  How would you feel if you started off playing as a Solar, then the ST killed your character, reincarnated them with all their memories... but brought them back as an Enlightened mortal with some extra bonus points to only spend on Essence based powers?  Most people would be pretty disappointed with that.  Giving out overpowered unique stuff is a fast way to make people wonder why they have to play the suck-characters instead.

2)  This is also the WOD... you're going to crush their morality traits like this.  They're going to go into the toilet as mortals, even killing Nazis, which is only going to encourage them to not care and let Synergy fall out the bottom.

In general, this level of power would also twist their souls to the point of failing to qualify as appropriate Bound as well.  Potential Sin-eaters are supposed to be touched by the supernatural and death specifically, not throwing it around like mad.

Also, if you care about how the books are written, the Prometheans are the only supers without souls.  The rest, even mages, have souls that are not the same as normal mortals, but they have souls (or the tattered, twisted remains of them at least).

There are also already rules in the books (Mage specifically) for taking people's souls out and what it does to them.  It isn't instantly fatal in the WOD.

I don't think that the power should be able to kill supernaturals. 

As for why they'd want to be Sin-Eaters, well, they both have very useful but extremely limited powers.  When they become Sin-Eaters, they get access to numerous powers, and the ability let them grow in scope.

As for their Morality being destroyed, I don't think so.  Killing a soldier isn't murder.  You don't murder people in war, you do your job for your country.  I wouldn't put it past a Morality 6 (5 at the lowest) sin.

deathmatchfm:

I don't think that the power should be able to kill supernaturals. 

As for why they'd want to be Sin-Eaters, well, they both have very useful but extremely limited powers.  When they become Sin-Eaters, they get access to numerous powers, and the ability let them grow in scope.

As for their Morality being destroyed, I don't think so.  Killing a soldier isn't murder.  You don't murder people in war, you do your job for your country.  I wouldn't put it past a Morality 6 (5 at the lowest) sin.

this statement is very subjective from person to person.  I agree with you, however another person may claim that all war is, is mass murder