JustJohn...again:(As a metaphysical sidenote, it is still interesting to note how, if "arbitrarily tossed" into the Umbra (without direct intent or mystical "stability"), vampires naturally gravitate "down" into the Shadowlands,
Scuttlest: JustJohn...again:(As a metaphysical sidenote, it is still interesting to note how, if "arbitrarily tossed" into the Umbra (without direct intent or mystical "stability"), vampires naturally gravitate "down" into the Shadowlands, What's your reference on that? I've always considered vampires to most commonly inhabit the High Umbra due to Auspex 5, which I'd think would be a bit more common than the Ash Path of Necromancy. But now I'm curious, so I want to find a way to "toss" a vampire into the Umbra. This is definitely going to come back to haunt my players just as soon as I figure out the metaphysics behind my Mage/Vampire Gehenna game. >:D
First, remember: Auspex 5 merely projects the consciousness, not the body, and my reference point was in regards to the overall being (body, as such, included). Also, vampires projected via Auspex are cusping in the Penumbra, practically in the Periphery, and usually do not come anywhere near the High Umbra, though a handful of Malkavians and Tremere have ventured there; most vampires who do "ascend" to the first reaches of the High Umbra do so only by accident of circumstance, and many become lost or, in harsh cases, never return at all... (a few of those torpored elders/methuselahs will never gain consciousness again...). The "tossing" term was just arbitrary on my part. To clarify: if a vampire were to cross through a (say) shallowing, he will find himself in the Penumbra, just a most anyone else would. But depending on setting, location, and circumstance, he might find himself in the Low Penumbra (Shadowlands) from the get-go, or even if initially in the Periphery/Penumbra, will find he "gravitates" downward into the Shadowlands (other living people with him may note him to over a while slowly "fade", while they in turn seem to "fade" from his POV; alternately, while walking about, he will note that the world around him gradually becomes "darker", a touch more "eerie", and things seem more decayed or in general disarray, as he descends into the lower world). Note that the use of many powers/rituals, what-have-you, can mitigate this: A garou could use Grasp the Beyond to drag a leech into the Penumbra (and said leech is pretty screwed at that point); a mage could use Spirit-4 to open a rift to shift the vampire there; certain Discipline/Ritual powers can do the trick (as with the Tremere ritual to reach the Middle Umbra), et al. Just got out of the can (I know -- TMI), and have to head out to WalMart... In short: many different references/flavor texts were sourced in the above, and there are certainly exceptions to any general rule in anycase, but the gist is: Mages gravitate to the High Umbra (especially with Mind-4 or 5); Garou generally stay in the Penumbra/Middle Umbra; and Vampires will descend into the Shadowlands (though not any deeper without some other power). That last bit is also linked to how the Tal'Maha'Ra first discovered the secrets of the Shadowlands, and "Enoch", after the elder vampires "replaced" the Euthanatos/Verbena mages who originally showed them varying secrets of the Umbra (both Low, and High, the latter being originally where our beloved Bit'o Bitey- Dynamism (read: Vicissitude) came from after a particularly harrowing jaunt into the High-Far Umbra -- Rule: don't take vampires where they don't belong...) Gotta run...