Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

Innerlight:

Everything you mentioned were nitpicks that someone who was a fan prior would nitpick.  If you weren't a fan would it matter what they turned into?

Actually, I went and saw both movies with some friends of mine, including thier 12 year old son, who pointed the same things out that bugged me, and he has never even seen the original G1 cartoon, and only knows of a few of the characters from old transformers that his father keeps in the boxes on a shelf in thier home.  So apparently, yes, it would matter to me if a director says something that "everything has to make logical sense to be in this picture" and then it doesn't.

Innerlight:

I can guarantee you people who were not fans previous didn't site this things as a reason they'd have bias against the movie. 

Just discounted your guarantee.

Innerlight:

I just think in the end people who were fans previous should add up all the things they didn't like about the movie and see if these were things that they didn't like because they remember it being different.. or better in some peoples cases, though I can't think of character they made horrible compared to the cartoon.

I have, and while you may think that I am basing my complaints on 'fond memories' and nothing substantial, I am only using Bay's own stated stipulations as guidelines, in which case, he fails miserably.

Innerlight:

I can't think of character they made horrible compared to the cartoon.

Really?  Skids for one, you know, the green one of the 'bot "twins"?

Sithlord5283:

Actually, I went and saw both movies with some friends of mine, including thier 12 year old son, who pointed the same things out that bugged me, and he has never even seen the original G1 cartoon, and only knows of a few of the characters from old transformers that his father keeps in the boxes on a shelf in thier home.  So apparently, yes, it would matter to me if a director says something that "everything has to make logical sense to be in this picture" and then it doesn't.

How is it possible that someone who has never seen transformers before to know that bumblee bee was a Volkswagen bug then cite their disgust for it?  How it that possible without coaching from the parents.

Sithlord5283:

Really?  Skids for one, you know, the green one of the 'bot "twins"?

Really, they weren't previous characters so you just didn't like them, I get that, you don't like that sort of humor.  ((if Skid and Mudflap were some obscure character that existed that I didn't know about I apology)).  Though I remember Jazz the singing menstrual transformer that sounded like an 80 year old blues singer, Rumble and Frenzy, Wheelie... the wheelie from the cartoon, the Dino bots, and Ryx Gar, were all in the ignorant and mildly offensive category but nobody gives much of a shit about it now because you were more then likely a kid when you first saw it and now you can't picture it not being that way.

Oh I forgot Blaster... and blaster was racist when I was a kid, but it didn't really bother me because it was a cartoon.  I'm just saying they had offensive characters then, and now.

Innerlight:

Sithlord5283:

Actually, I went and saw both movies with some friends of mine, including thier 12 year old son, who pointed the same things out that bugged me, and he has never even seen the original G1 cartoon, and only knows of a few of the characters from old transformers that his father keeps in the boxes on a shelf in thier home.  So apparently, yes, it would matter to me if a director says something that "everything has to make logical sense to be in this picture" and then it doesn't.

How is it possible that someone who has never seen transformers before to know that bumblee bee was a Volkswagen bug then cite their disgust for it?  How it that possible without coaching from the parents.

Actually, his complaint was that he transformed into a sportscar when his function, as stated in the movie, is a spy and since spies only survive if they keep a low profile and try to remain unnoticed, how is that even possible if he is a very conspicuous bright yellow concept car.

Sithlord5283:

Really?  Skids for one, you know, the green one of the 'bot "twins"?

Really, they weren't previous characters so you just didn't like them, I get that, you don't like that sort of humor.  ((if Skid and Mudflap were some obscure character that existed that I didn't know about I apology)).

Skids is G1, Mudflap is new.

Though I remember Jazz the singing menstrual transformer that sounded like an 80 year old blues singer, Rumble and Frenzy, Wheelie... the wheelie from the cartoon, the Dino bots, and Ryx Gar, were all in the ignorant and mildly offensive category but nobody gives much of a shit about it now because you were more then likely a kid when you first saw it and now you can't picture it not being that way.

Actually, I was about the same age as my friends kid is now, when Transformers came out here in the States, and I found the Dinobots, Wreck Gar, Blaster and quite a few others poorly done, but by the same token, better portrayed, then the transformers in Bay's films.  They at least had a reason for being the way they were, that was explained in the 'toon itself, even if the explaination sucked, which it often did.  I much prefered the way the Dinobots, and most of the others listed (by you and me as examples), were depicted in the comics, myself.

Here is a link to Skids, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skids_(Transformers)

The kids gripe wasn't the same as yours.   While the kid makes a valid point the cartoon didn't address things like that either, so it was equally as flawed.  I'm not even going to attempt to defend the movie's logic, though I don't particularly see people off the street snapping their fingers, looking at Sams car and saying, you know what I don't think Sam can afford that car... must be an alien robot. 

I've always wondered why the transformers always stayed the same car when I was a kid, an issue they addressed in the movie.  I'm only bring this up to address the fact that they brought up things in the movie they never got into in the cartoons that explained things.

I loved the Dinobots, Jazz, Wreak Gar, and all the other transformers, even though they were clown shoes, but just because you ended up liking them doesn't mean that they weren't stupid.  The extremely stereo typed old robots had a reason for being goofy in the cartoon?  but in the movie their was no excuse?

I personally do not want to change your mind about you hating the transformer movies, though I can't really accept the reasons you're citing for hating the movie which is the only reason I'm still talking about it.

You know what maybe I'm just looking at it wrong.  I used to like the Go Bots until the Transformers came along, then I hated the Go Bots because they seemed dumb by comparison.  I think I'll just have to accept that people will not like something just because a better version exist making the other version stupid.  I think I can see your point.  Personally I still loved both transformers movies, but I think I understand your points. ((I'm not being condensing))

Giant robots, guns, explosions, and Megan Fox..... GREATEST FILM EVER

Innerlight:

To Majunior and Hivemind - You both seem to give the old cartoon an infinite amount of leeway but when the movie does it they're fucking it up.  I don't think the movie could ever be as good as you two remembered the show, not a knock, this is what I'm sensing.  I just don't think transformers did anything other movies that has taken libertys has done to make the movie as a whole make sense in conjuction to logic, I don't think very many movies are spot on reproductions.

Innerlight:

The kids gripe wasn't the same as yours.

It is, he can't see how a concept car vehicle mode in anyway fits with trying to keep a low profile suitable for being a spy, neither can I.  He can't see how a giant robot, Devastator, made of alien metal with a grinding/shredding weaponised maw made to destroy and pulverize everything from enemies (this would by default have to include Autobots) to landscape, would choke on a rather small Autobot.  Neither can I.  Nor can he see why Devatator has two wrecking balls hanging from his crotch when none of the six robots that became him were equiped with them, and only one of them even has that kind of capability to even have one wrecking ball attachment, that would be the hook construction vehicle, Longarm.  Neither can I.

   While the kid makes a valid point the cartoon didn't address things like that either, so it was equally as flawed.

Which, since one of the reasons Bay stated as to making this series was to address the mechanics of transformation and give everything a reason for being there in robot form, makes it that much less excusable.

  I'm not even going to attempt to defend the movie's logic, though I don't particularly see people off the street snapping their fingers, looking at Sams car and saying, you know what I don't think Sam can afford that car... must be an alien robot. 

That isn't my point, the fact that he is riding around in a concept car, not a production model but I repeat, concept car without drawing any attention from bystanders is impossible, and goes against the role of the Autobot in question.

I've always wondered why the transformers always stayed the same car when I was a kid, an issue they addressed in the movie.  I'm only bring this up to address the fact that they brought up things in the movie they never got into in the cartoons that explained things.

They did, and in more depth than the movie.  The reason they stuck with the same car/vehicle mode was actually very simple and fit with the series, the Ark used most of power reserves repairing, reactivating and assigning vehicle modes, which it fit to each Transformer's personality and function, that even Rachet says something to the effect of it's going to be a long time before the Ark is going to be able to restore it's lost power stores, so we are going to be stuck here for a long time.  Satisfactory?  Maybe not, but it's more than we got with the movie and it also makes, in my mind, more sense.

I loved the Dinobots, Jazz, Wreak Gar, and all the other transformers, even though they were clown shoes, but just because you ended up liking them doesn't mean that they weren't stupid.  The extremely stereo typed old robots had a reason for being goofy in the cartoon?

Goofy?  No.  Reason for them transforming into what they transformed into?  Yes

  but in the movie their was no excuse?

There was no excuse for their form not matching thier function, no.

I personally do not want to change your mind about you hating the transformer movies, though I can't really accept the reasons you're citing for hating the movie which is the only reason I'm still talking about it.

Sorry you can't see my point of view, I am doing the best I can to explain my reasons.  Though you will have to accept them for being what they are, my reasons.

You know what maybe I'm just looking at it wrong.  I used to like the Go Bots until the Transformers came along, then I hated the Go Bots because they seemed dumb by comparison.  I think I'll just have to accept that people will not like something just because a better version exist making the other version stupid.

It is one of the main reasons people don't like things, they think it should be better or that a better one exists.  Were this not the case, we'd still be going from one place to another on foot because everyone would be satisfied and no one would see any need for improvement (thinking it should be better)

  I think I can see your point.  Personally I still loved both transformers movies, but I think I understand your points.

That is all I ask

 ((I'm not being condensing))

Really didn't think you were.

The here's the best review of the film I can find...

Innerlight:

Why did they change bumblee bee?... I have absolutely no idea... other then Bumblee bee was lame in the old cartoon, now he wasn't.

And there was a reason he added a tank-like form to his repertoire. The Decepticon who was destroyed on the bottom of the ocean to give him part had tank treads and other such parts.

Majunior:

Innerlight:

To Majunior and Hivemind - You both seem to give the old cartoon an infinite amount of leeway but when the movie does it they're fucking it up.  I don't think the movie could ever be as good as you two remembered the show, not a knock, this is what I'm sensing.  I just don't think transformers did anything other movies that has taken libertys has done to make the movie as a whole make sense in conjuction to logic, I don't think very many movies are spot on reproductions.

I'd like to refer you to my entire passage where I said in some level of detail there are movies out that are improvements over the source material, but stay true enough to the source material to make long time diehard fans happy. Iron Man and the first Spider-Man come readily to mind. You can make changes to make a comprehensive stand-alone film, improve problems in the original material, but otherwise stay very close to the source material in a number of ways. I know this, because we have movies that have done it well.

Transformers in no way, shape, or form does this. It doesn't even attempt to do it. It essentially throws out EVERYTHING that was the original Transformers cartoon, creates everything whole-cloth, and then throws in a few sprinkles that are supposed to harken back to the original in a feeble and transparent attempt to claim some sort of correlation to said source material and make those long time diahard fans happy.

I for one don't appreciate it when someone pisses on me and tells me it's raining.

Ok, no point in getting into it with you, I have absolutely no idea what changed so much in transformers and I watched the cartoon, but you say it did.  I don't see it so I'm going to put it on me for not seeing it I'm not going to put it on you and say it doesn't exist.

Storyteller:

And there was a reason he added a tank-like form to his repertoire. The Decepticon who was destroyed on the bottom of the ocean to give him part had tank treads and other such parts.

I didn't think about that, but man that's sort of deep.  They did cannibalize that other transformer to rebuild Megatron.  Though when someone has their heart set on something being stupid it's stupid

I'd still like to see this movie... in the theater... maybe sometime early next week... Monday or Tuesday... or something...