The most evil Infernal idea...

OK, I've been re-reading the Infernal splat and the CoTD: South, and I have a question. Why hasn't She Who Lives in Her Name gone after the Perfect of Paragon to become a Defiler?! He's already miffed about not being Chosen as a Twilight amidst the Solar resurgence. And in the Defiler description it explicitly mentions unrecognized genius as a breeding ground for Infernal sentiment. Who's got more unappreciated mystical genius than the most powerful non-Exalted mortal in all Creation? >:) It could also create an even more interesting dynamic with Scarlet Whisper too, especially should the Orb of Peace and Order be found...

Ulric Silver Fangs:

OK, I've been re-reading the Infernal splat and the CoTD: South, and I have a question. Why hasn't She Who Lives in Her Name gone after the Perfect of Paragon to become a Defiler?! He's already miffed about not being Chosen as a Twilight amidst the Solar resurgence. And in the Defiler description it explicitly mentions unrecognized genius as a breeding ground for Infernal sentiment. Who's got more unappreciated mystical genius than the most powerful non-Exalted mortal in all Creation? >:) It could also create an even more interesting dynamic with Scarlet Whisper too, especially should the Orb of Peace and Order be found...

He's also sort of the most successful heroic mortal in history.

Exactly, plus he's got the whole obsessive-complusive "I must create perfect harmony and hierarchy, while allowing for the absolute bare minimum of free will to spoil it" thing going, which resonates so well with SWLiHN...

There has been a rather heated debate on this subject no more than a month ago. It pays to browse the forum a bit before starting new threads.

The problem with this idea is that the Perfect is probably the worst candidate the Yozis could consider for an Infernal Exaltation. He's extremely successful, very self-confident, and used to both wielding great power and ruling. Pretty much the polar opposite of what the Yozis are apparently looking for in prospective Infernals.

It could work, but imho it would ruin certain qualities of the character and diminish him over all. He would just be 'another' exalted.

Morangias:

The problem with this idea is that the Perfect is probably the worst candidate the Yozis could consider for an Infernal Exaltation. He's extremely successful, very self-confident, and used to both wielding great power and ruling. Pretty much the polar opposite of what the Yozis are apparently looking for in prospective Infernals.

That was all true up until he lost at Celestial Bingo. Now he has this nagging resentment and doubt about failing to be good enough for a Celestial Exaltation. If that isn't a perfect breeding ground for a potential Green Sun Prince I don't know what is!

Cthulhu:

That was all true up until he lost at Celestial Bingo. Now he has this nagging resentment and doubt about failing to be good enough for a Celestial Exaltation. If that isn't a perfect breeding ground for a potential Green Sun Prince I don't know what is!

Honestly, I just don't buy it. Nagging doubt is one thing, but it isn't the identity shattering failure that most infernals are picked for. The Yozi grab you at your lowest moment so you'll be beholden to them. Even with his doubts, he's still a long ways from his lowest moment. Now, if a group of celestials were to come along and take everything away from him . . .

Ulric Silver Fangs:

OK, I've been re-reading the Infernal splat and the CoTD: South, and I have a question. Why hasn't She Who Lives in Her Name gone after the Perfect of Paragon to become a Defiler?! He's already miffed about not being Chosen as a Twilight amidst the Solar resurgence. And in the Defiler description it explicitly mentions unrecognized genius as a breeding ground for Infernal sentiment. Who's got more unappreciated mystical genius than the most powerful non-Exalted mortal in all Creation? >:) It could also create an even more interesting dynamic with Scarlet Whisper too, especially should the Orb of Peace and Order be found...

Maybe this other threads of mine can help you:
http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/p/7578/158596.aspx#158596
http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/p/7928/164457.aspx#164457

I had already make the Perfect a Defiler after the reencarnation of the solar queen that made the Scepter kick his ass and exile him from Paragon to die in the desert.
Of course, that was not what happens....

Remember that to be a GSP you must be a sucker looser like a mortal.

He also has too many ties with the gods. This is given how he constructed his nation. Only the Maiden of Secrets knows what all his contracts were.

Cthulhu:

That was all true up until he lost at Celestial Bingo. Now he has this nagging resentment and doubt about failing to be good enough for a Celestial Exaltation. If that isn't a perfect breeding ground for a potential Green Sun Prince I don't know what is!

Well, one of them would be actually failing at something important. "Oh no, I didn't Exalt as a Celestial, so I have to keep ruling my perfect society through my powerful artifact that gives me immortality, my armies of enlightened mortals and my significant abilities at both Sorcery and Martial Arts!" just doesn't cut the muster if you ask me.

Also, if he didn't attract a Solar Exaltation, ever, he won't attract a GSP Exaltation either, as both have exactly the same targeting system.

Morangias:

Well, one of them would be actually failing at something important. "Oh no, I didn't Exalt as a Celestial, so I have to keep ruling my perfect society through my powerful artifact that gives me immortality, my armies of enlightened mortals and my significant abilities at both Sorcery and Martial Arts!" just doesn't cut the muster if you ask me.

What counts as something important seems to cover a lot of ground considering the various canon Exaltations on display. Some of them seem to be little more that right place, right time. Apparently begging for your life on a Dragon King sacrificial altar is cause enough for an Eclipse Exaltation, for example. Some were just personal realizations...nothing more. Panther was a good example of that. Havesh performs a fairly mundane hit on a mortal and got Exalted.

Perhaps for the Perfect his chance came and went when he utterly failed to be content with his (very nice) lot in life. Its not any less important than Panther suddenly wanting to become a crusader. Both are turning points in their lives.

Also, if he didn't attract a Solar Exaltation, ever, he won't attract a GSP Exaltation either, as both have exactly the same targeting system.

There are probably thousands of potential candidates at any one time. The fact the Perfect failed to attract a Essence means nothing by itself.

Holden:

Ulric Silver Fangs:

OK, I've been re-reading the Infernal splat and the CoTD: South, and I have a question. Why hasn't She Who Lives in Her Name gone after the Perfect of Paragon to become a Defiler?! He's already miffed about not being Chosen as a Twilight amidst the Solar resurgence. And in the Defiler description it explicitly mentions unrecognized genius as a breeding ground for Infernal sentiment. Who's got more unappreciated mystical genius than the most powerful non-Exalted mortal in all Creation? >:) It could also create an even more interesting dynamic with Scarlet Whisper too, especially should the Orb of Peace and Order be found...

He's also sort of the most successful heroic mortal in history.

Wich means he hasnet failed enough to satisfy the default assumption, to clarify. What Mateo did was that he introduced a very appropriate element of fail in the Perfects life, wich is basically all that it takes.

I'm not buying that. On one hand, the guy clearly feels he ought to get a Celestial Exaltation, and that feeling is arguably a sort of failure on his part.

On the other hand, he's very competent, as powerful as a mortal can get, and used to wielding great power already. He's not likely to be successfully manipulated by the Yozis, nor will he feel indebted to them for giving him power he believes he deserves anyway. He's extremely likely to screw the Yozis over should they give him the Exaltation.

Now, Maese Mateo postulated that he'd make a valid target for the Infernal Exaltation should he get curb-stomped by some stupid Exalted who just wanted his loot. This I can agree with. Currently, no, I don't see him becoming a GSP.

Currently, he's McAwesome because he did all this without Celestial Exaltation.




Secondly, you could argue that he's long past any crisis.  He would need a fresh challenge, perhaps, to prove his heroic greatness (as opposed to merely his competence).  Maybe if he had to go save a loved one, without the boons of his rulership, then a Solar Exaltation would go "holy shit, he doesn't merely have high-abilities.... this guy is a hero".

And the same idea, but last minute chickening out, for Infernals. That simple.  He needs some sort of challenge at this point - not that "I know everything" because he's lived centuries to do learn such....but the more Twilight-esque "I had a sudden epiphany, because against hardship and challenges, I strive."  Arianna was in an academy arguably full of other intelligent men - but it was her striving, against the odds and pressure, that get her what she got.

Probably one of my favorite NPCs.

That was an awesome post, Sach. :)

I sort of agree, incidentally; I rather suspect that if the Yozis went through the trouble of attempting to Infernalize this dude, the resulting conflict might very well earn him that Twilightship he's always wanted. :)