Phalin:Old Clan Tzimisce, well they are an integral part of the whole Souleaters entities, and Vicissitude as a disease concept, which as removed from VtM back-story with good reason, we do intend to use a version of the old clan as a lineage for the Tzimisce but not as a separate entity as it is in VtM.
Phalin:We plan to remove ether Auspex or Animalism from clan Tzimisce probably Auspex and replace it with something currently looking at Obfuscate, Fortitude / Resilience or Dominate.
Necromancy Necromancy is the signature discipline of the Giovanni but is also practiced by the Samedi bloodline as well as the mysterious Harbringers of Skulls. The power of this discipline is all about death and control and understanding of undead both corporeal and non corporeal. When learning the first level of Necromancy the vampire need to state which type of undead the powers can be used on. Either Ghosts or Walking Dead (zombies) can be chosen. For an expenditure of 6 XP each power can be converted to function for the other type of undead as well. Write ups will cover both Ghosts and Walking Dead.
Commune with the dead, * The basis for some form of understanding and cooperation is communication. It can be argued whether or not the Giovanni are actually cooperating with the restless dead that they are so in tune with but before flying one must first learn how to walk. Cost: N/A Dice: Wits + Academics + Necromancy (- Resolve for detection if undead does not want to be seen) Action: Instant This power is actually twofold. First the necromancer can detect undead (not vampires) in their presence and second he can communicate with them. To detect an undead the necromancer rolls Wits + Academics + Necromancy – target Resolve (Resistance for Ghosts and Walking Dead). If there are several undead in the vicinity of the necromancer use the highest Resolve. Dramatic Failure: Not only does the necromancer fail to see any undead but he will stand out to them like a beacon in the dark. Failure: No undead are detected. Success: Any undead in the vicinity of the necromancer become visible (both Ghosts and Walking Dead). Exceptional Success: No additional effects.
To communicate (both hear and talk) with the undead Wits + Academics + Necromancy is rolled. Usually the necromancer is the only one that can see and hear these creatures so talking out into thin air can be discomforting to other, apply -1 penalty to social rolls in that case (not with the ghosts or walking dead). Dramatic Failure: The necromancer fails to communicate successfully but not before managing to insult the undead he is talking to. Failure: Fail to communicate with the undead. Success: Communication is possible with undead for the duration of one scene. Exceptional Success: Communication with undead possible for one scene and the necromancer receive +1 to all social rolls while interacting with the undead. The effect of this power lasts for one scene.
Command beyond the grave, ** Being able to see and talk to undead is all well and fine but does not confer any real power over the undead. And if it is something the Giovanni wants it is power. Once they can make their voices heard to the undead they can start to influence them. This power is no gentle touch or slight manipulation, it is like a sledgehammer forcing the undead to do the bidding of the necromancer. But beware once the control wears off or the angry undead might turn upon the necromancer. Cost: 1 Vitae Dice: Intelligence + Expression + Necromancy versus Resolve. Action: Contested The command issued by the necromancers must be complied by the Ghost or Walking Dead. It is not unlike a command issued by Dominate and can be placed like a hypnotic suggestion, taking effect under certain circumstances. But most commonly the command is for a specific quest or an immediate action to help or aid the necromancer and then the Ghost or Walking Dead is released to his own devices. It is somewhat more dangerous or risky to command Ghosts since they usually are more sentient than Walking Dead and can be quite offended (and sometimes outraged) by a necromancer blatantly forcing it to do things against its will. Only one command may have effect on a given Ghost or Walking Dead at a time. If trying to command a Ghost or Walking Dead already under the command of another necromancer (or other type of control) you need more successes than the existing command. Several mindless Walking Dead can be commanded with a single roll. Modifiers for this are given below.
Dramatic Failure: The command fails and it is obvious to the undead what the necromancer tried to do. The necromancer can not command the undead again until the next night. Failure: Command failed. Success: The command succeeded and the undead will perform it to the best of its ability. Exceptional Success: The command is a resounding success and the undead is at -1 to try to break free from the command if given a second chance. Commands that will directly harm the undead will automatically fail and commands that require the undead (very uncommon for mindless Walking Dead) to do things contrary to their beliefs will render the undead an extra roll to cancel the command. Usually these rolls are made with +2 for the undead trying to break free. Suggested Modifiers Modifier Situation -1 Commanding 2 mindless Walking dead -2 Commanding 5 mindless Walking dead. -3 Commanding 10 mindless Walking dead. -4 Commanding 25 mindless Walking dead. -5 Commanding all mindless Walking dead in vicinity of necromancer.
Eldritch beacon, *** In their apprentice years many Giovanni live or frequent places of death such as graveyards, morgues, mortuaries, locations known for great battles and the like. This is not only for a morbid fascination of death but also for practical matters for obtaining the material they need, meaning fresh bodies or fresh souls not yet departed, to perform their art. As the necromancer grows in power the need to frequent these places lessen as he can summon the undead and use already known power to control them. Cost: 1 Willpower Dice: Presence + Persuasion + Necromancy Action: Extended If trying to summon a specific Ghost or Walking Dead something associated with it must be in possession of the necromancer and the necromancer must get as many successes as the target has Willpower with one roll being made each hour. Summoning a general Ghost from the area still requires some trappings such as candles, a pentagram, something associated to death (a sacrifice, the bones of a dead person or the like). The amount of successes needed is always 6 and the Ghost that appears is (usually) an ordinary Ghost of mediocre power. Summoning Walking Dead is a bit different when summoning them in general. Trappings as above is needed and the amount of successes needed are equal to the amount of Walking Dead trying to be summoned. The necromancer will stand out as a beacon in the night for the Walking Dead and they will be drawn to him like moths to a flame. If there are not any Walking Dead within the area (usually city since that is where most Kindred live) the power automatically fails. If the Walking Dead are in a too decomposed state this power can be very damaging to the Masquerade. There is a third use of this power and that is to create a Walking Dead. This Walking Dead will be a mindless one of mediocre power. Added to the cost is one Vitae that is usually spilled over the body to be reanimated. There is no limit to the amount of Walking Dead that can be created by this power but they will decompose over time and become useless and also it is quite taxing Vitae vise. Also make note that this power only summons the creature. The necromancer still has to be able to command the arriving undead.
Outcome of dice roll. Dramatic Failure: The summoning does not fail but the arriving undead is hostile towards the necromancers and hard to control. The necromancer receives -3 to command attempts. Failure: Summoning failed. Success: Summoning is a success and the undead appears as fast as they can travel to the necromancer. Ghosts usually appear very quickly since they have modes of transportation not limited by physical law such as Walking Dead has. Exceptional Success: The summoned entity is friendly towards the summoner and any attempts to command or socialize with the creature receive +2 modifier. Suggested Modifiers Modifier Situation +2 Summoning of Ghost performed in an area closely associated with death (morgue, cemetery, etc.)
Touch of the grave, **** Even though being able to communicate, command and summon undead the Ghosts are still intangible for the Giovanni and Walking Dead are hard to keep in pristine condition when they become damaged. This versatile power give the necromancer power over the body of a Walking Dead allowing him to preserve it, heal it or wound it if need be. As for Ghosts they become tangible to the necromancer and also allow him to heal or wound a Ghost as he sees fit. This power is used (or abused if you were to talk to some of Ghosts manhandled by) Giovanni Elders to keep their minions in check. Cost: 1 Vitae Dice: Intelligence + Occult + Necromancy (-Defence for touch attacks) Action: Instant A necromancer may always touch or physically handle a Walking Dead but Ghosts are intangible. With this power Ghosts become tangible for the duration of the power (1 round) and can be touched by the necromancer. Beside the tangibility of the Ghosts the touch of the necromancer becomes harmful or healing for an undead.
Dramatic Failure: The attempt fails and this power can not be invoked again for the duration of the scene. Failure: Heal or harm attempt failed. Success: If used to heal an undead it will be healed for one point. If used to harm an undead it will receive an amount of Lethal damage equal to successes rolled. If used to preserve a Walking Dead it will be preserved for an amount of days equal to successes scored. Exceptional Success: If used to heal an undead it will be healed for two points. If used to harm an undead it will receive an amount of Lethal damage equal to successes rolled.
If the undead does not want to be touched the rules for “Touching an Opponent” on page 156 in World of Darkness is applied.
Sleep of ages, ***** Giovanni Elders are said to have stolen this power from an ancient clan of vampires that was eradicated by the Giovanni when they first became vampires. The clan is long since forgotten but their legacy lives on in this power that affects something that is most enigmatic to Kindred, Torpor. The story goes that the clan of Vampires where scholars in death on a more spiritual level than the Giovanni and that they found a way to overcome the little death. Cost: 1 Willpower Dice: Intelligence + Medicine + Necromancy versus Resolve + Humanity (when forced into Torpor/Blood Potency (when being forced out of Torpor). Action: Contested and Extended; resistance is reflexive. This power is the same for all necromancers and no type of other undead is affected. This power affects Kindred, either the necromancer himself or other Kindred. There are three ways to use this power: • Force other into Torpor. • Relieve other from Torpor. • Relieve self from Torpor. All three are handled in similar manner. To affect another Kindred touch is required and for an unwilling victim the rules for “Touching an Opponent” on page 156 in World of Darkness are used. The necromancer gets to roll once every round and need to accumulate an amount of successes equal to the targets’ Humanity. Resistance is reflexive and will always be rolled, there is an unconscious resistance for this even though the target might think he wants to be put to sleep. Bear in mind that the target of this power can be the necromancer using this power and if so he will roll versus himself.
Dramatic Failure: The attempt failed and this power can not be used on the target until the next night. Failure: Attempt failed. Success: Headway is made to either force someone into or relieve from Torpor. Exceptional Success: Extra successes are their own reward.
Suggested Modifiers Modifier Situation -2 Used under stressful circumstances (in combat for example). -4 Used by necromancer in torpor on himself.
Visceratika Visceratika is the signature discipline for the Gargoyles of earth, shape change and vigilance. It has some resemblance to Protean and to the Gangrel blood part of creating the Gargoyles is probably the reason for that.
Hidden Guardian, * By their very nature the Gargoyles can be considered a masquerade breach. Also they prefer to stand back and wait in vigilance while protecting their charge. This power allows them to both move unseen and avoid embarrassing potential masquerade problems and also to stand silently and unseen. Tales are plenty of Gargoyles using this power for less savory endeavors where they have been waiting at an unsuspecting victim who does not know what hit him until he felt a large stone encrusted fist in the back of his head. Used correctly this power rivals that of Obfuscate. Cost: 1 Vitae Dice: Intelligence + Subterfuge + Visceratika Action: Instant This power works differently depending on if the vampire is standing absolutely still or if he’s moving. A prerequisite for this power to work is that the vampire has a minimum of clothes on his body. If standing still the vampire cannot be perceived by natural means. Auspex (and similar powers) can pierce the power of “Hidden Guardian” using the “Clash of Wills” rules on page 119 in Vampire: the Requiem. Note that the Visceratika user uses Intelligence + Subterfuge + Visceratika and not the combination from the “Clash of Wills” sidebar. If moving slowly (maximum half Speed trait) the Vampire get the amount of successes added to any Stealth rolls performed. At any time if the vampire moves faster than half his Speed trait this power fails to work. The effects of this power lasts for one scene.
Wings of the Gargoyle, ** The Gargoyles sometimes look like the ornaments on European cathedrals and churches from where their name comes from. Some of these ornaments sprout wings either looking like angelic wings or more like the wings of a bat. It is a common misconception that all Gargoyles can fly and sprout wings as they are embraced. In order for a Gargoyle to take to the skies on wings this power must be invoked. Cost: 1 Vitae Dice: No roll. Action: Instant By spending a Vitae the vampire sprout wings (most often they are batlike but some have angelic or more birdlike wings) with a wingspan that is twice the length of the character (i.e. a character 2 meters long have a wingspan of 4 meters). With these wings the Gargoyle can fly, although quite clumsily and awkwardly. Speed through the air is current Speed + 5. Any ranged weapons fired from the air is penalized by 2 dice due to the clumsiness while flying (or trying to hover). In order to start the vampire need to be at least twice the height of the character up or have a running start of 4 times the length of the character to take off. The wings are out as long as the vampire wishes them to be there but keep in mind that they are big, hard (if not impossible) to hide and definitely a breach of the masquerade if noticed by a mortal. A Gargoyle can activate Hidden Guardian while flying but can only use it if flying at half his (flying) Speed rating.
Bond with Terra, *** Some say that the Gargoyles are cousins (or more devious tongues derivates) of Gangrel vampires and this power make such claims ring true. The affinity for stone and rock among the Gargoyles are widespread and by means of this power they can become as one with bare rock or stone. Just like the Gangrel many Gargoyles use this power as a fast and easy way to escape the suns rays during the day while travelling (and are able to cover great distances using the Wings of the Gargoyle). Cost: 1 Vitae Dice: No roll. Action: Instant This power works similarly to the “Haven of Soil” power on pages 138 – 139 in Vampire: the Requiem. At first the vampire can only bond with bare and natural stone or rock. Other substances are possible with the expenditure of three experience points each, soil/earth, wood and processed stone (concrete, asphalt or brick for example) can be bought.
Guardian Vigilance, **** Many employ the Gargoyles as bodyguards or guardians of a place or valuable item. This is not only due to the fact that they are considered to be very loyal to the hand that feeds them but also because they do a very good job at it. By means of this power the Gargoyle can keep a close watch over an entire structure making it nigh impossible to intrude without the Gargoyle knowing it. It is often said that the spirit of the Gargoyle is watching over the place and that people moving about can feel as if someone is watching (over) them. Cost: 1 Willpower Dice: Wits + Occult + Visceratika Action: Instant and/or Contested Once activated the body of the Gargoyle lapses into a torpor like state and he must be in contact with the building he is to watch over (yes he can be melded with the building or in the area using “Bond of Terra”). Quite a few powers are given while this power is in effect. This power is primarily used on one building (roughly the size of a normal 2 story building or smaller) or one location (without buildings) the size of half a football field without any negative effects. But it can be used on larger or less contained places. Some Gargoyles say that when trying to guard to big a place or too many houses they are stretched thin and they do a poorer job. Modifier Situation - 3 Location lacks natural boundaries. Such as a park, football field with no bleachers or the like. -1 Per story over two of the building being guarded. Or per extra half football field size being guarded. -1 Per extra building being watched over.
First the vampire can locate and pinpoint a specific individual within the confines of this power. This requires an instant action and a successful Wits + Occult + Visceratika roll. If the subject trying to be pinpointed does not want to be found a contested roll of Wits + Occult + Visceratika vs. Wits + Stealth is rolled. Second the vampire can detect any intrusions into the confines of this power. If trying to enter the confines of this power without being noticed an Extended and Contested action takes place. The intruder uses Stealth (if just walking in) or Larceny (for a break and entering attempt) plus relevant attribute vs. Wits + Occult + Visceratika for the guarding vampire. The first one reaching the others Willpower score is the winner of the contest. If the guarding vampire wins he detects the intrusion and know the location where it took place (exceptional success yields a brief look of the intruder). If the intruder wins he goes unnoticed. If the intruder is cloaked by Obfuscate (or similar power) first a “Clash of Wills” (Vampire: the Requiem page 119, guarding vampire uses Wits + Occult + Visceratika) takes place. If the guarding vampire looses this contest it has no chance to detect the intrusion by the cloaked intruder.
Form of Terra, ***** A powerful and angry Gargoyle is a terrible thing to behold indeed, and one which isn’t defeated easily. A Gargoyle whose skin is transformed to stone is even more terrifying and even harder to defeat. The common misconception that all Gargoyles have rocklike skin is probably because of this power. The skin of the Gargoyle hardens and become like that of natural stone or rock making it into a veritable tank shaking off damage that would fell the strongest of Kindreds. Cost: 1 Vitae and 1 Willpower Dice: Stamina + Survival + Visceratika Action: Instant Once activated the skin of the vampire is turned into a hard material not unlike natural stone or rock. • Armor is equal to successes on activation roll. • Size increase by 1 (adding 1 to Health). • An amount of aggravated damage from fire equal to Visceratika rating can be downgraded as per Resilience rules. • Wound penalties are one lower. • Fists do 1 B damage. • No flight is possible when using “Wings of the Gargoyle” although the vampire can glide safely down to the ground if falling and thus not take any damage from falling. • All tactile perception rolls are penalized by 2 dice.
Peloquin:While the new Obtenebration isn't quite as over-the-top as old (and therefore easily kept intact, personal taste really), I agree, if going with more common Disciplines, Obfuscate is a -great- setup of the Lasombra. Even in Dark Ages, they were often the puppet masters behind the thrones, rather than the ones sitting upon it like the Ventrue. Great suggestion, I always felt it'd suit them more for their night to night activities. Leave Obtenebration for the Abyssal mystics and occultists (a Bloodline), or simply have them dig into a Theban or Cruac equivalent out of clan. Ditto with the Assamites. I could be misremembering (it was a whiiiiiiiile back) but at least one author speaking on the clan mentioned they'd be better suited with Potence than the mess that Quietus alway was. Being smacked with Vigor/Potence, with the defense (and potential offence) of Celerity, nevermind hit and run tactics of Obfuscate, -ow-. With the advent of the castes, it's still pretty workable, switching Quietus with that. Ravnos are a toughy. Honestly, I'd port over Nightmare for them. Seriously, look at each power individually, even as specific as it is, I think it's a better fit using Requiem ports that aren't too out there. Nightmare would be one I'd consider porting back into the Nosferatu as well, if ones playing them up as being something more than info mongering snitches (ugh). I'd leave Animalism for the Bestials etc. in a Bloodline manner or similar. That said, Obfuscate for the Nos easily converts to Obtenebration. Think the silent film. Consider that it helps see in the dark (and where do many Nos eke out unlives?) and conceal themselves or others in swatches of darkness, let alone move all sneaky like with near wraithly ease at higher levels. May not be a "generic" but the new one fits the Nos even more. Nightmare certainly would fit, but I'll diverge and say, give them the nWoD version of Obten. Keep Vigor, and toss in Animalism or Nightmare as desired. Setites: Well, supposedly you got warriors and priests, much like the Assamites. Resilience works, but so does Vigor, for a Majesty, Obfuscate Vigor whammy. I think it makes a subtle counterpoint to the Lasombra as well, though potentially alluding to their shared origins. Give the priests access (though not neccessarily as an in-clan) to Cruac using some of the Sethite Rituals of the Mekhet book and your doing pretty damn good.
Storyline Well its still very much up in the air at this point but hear is the basic of the story we have so far. Its mostly a re work of the old Masquerade back-story, as we generally consider it to be better, however we have included a version of Camarilla in Rome ironically under the name Invictus.(Role reversal) The Carthian order forms in ancient Greece entirely within clan Brujah, eventually moving to North Africa and forming Carthage. The Invictus is forms in Rome by the Ventrue, Lasombra, Malkavian and Cappadocians. Three Punic Wars later, Carthage is Destroyed and the Carthians are exiled to the north of Europe. However around 300 Ad Hannibal (The Great, Carthaginian General) is awakened from Torpa, and immediately sets about driving a wedge between the clans of the Invictus, convincing the Lasombra the Ventrue are planning to make a strike against them, which is actually true. The Lasombra Leave the Invictus and declare a clan war against the Ventrue. An as yet unnamed clan enters an underground Temple and mausoleum, and enters Torpa to be awakened in the future. In this time Hannibal has taken on the Role of king of the Visigoths, under the name Alaric. The Invictus begins to collapse the Cappadocians are in the middle of a civil war with there children a group that will eventually be known as the Giovanni, and the Ventrue are suffering at the hands of the Lasombra. The Killing Blow came in 410 after a devastating war against the Invictus, Rome and particularly clan Ventrue, Hannibal and his Brujah and Visigoth allies Sack the city of Rome in vengeance for Carthage. The Invictus as an entity never officially disbands but stops being an affective faction within 50 years. The Ventrue and Lasombra finally agree to a treaty in 900 AD despite affective hostilities ending almost 200 years earlier. This is just in time for the start First Anarch Revolt that Resulted from various clan wars being waged across Europe, the Revolt was largely crushed by internal policing of the clans own ranks weeding out the dissidents. However the Revolt Combined with the Clan Wars resulted in increased mortal knowledge of the vampire race, and thus began the Inquisition. The Second Anarch Revolt combined with the decimation of the Inquisition, resulted in clan Toreadors Rafael de Corazon sending envoys to may of the clans suggesting an alliance and reformation of the Invictus. The Invictus officially reformed with only the Ventrue, Toreador, Nosferatu, and Salubri clans; however the Salubri wear still involved in a conflict with a group of vampires calling themselves House Tremere. And the Malkavian refused to have any further involvement with the organization The Invictus without a real fighting force behind it suffered for almost 100 years until finally it once again collapsed with the destruction of the Salubri clan and there Antediluvian. Once again Rafael de Corazon attempted with the help of Hardestadt of clan Ventrue to reform the Invictus realizing they needed as strong fighting arm for the faction both clans at the suggestion of clan Nosferatu made offers to Clans Assimite, Brujah and Gangrel, only the Brujah agreed after significant negotiations, one of there main stipulations was that the Name Invictus be replaced. And so in 1347 the Camarilla was formed.
Well its still very much up in the air at this point but hear is the basic of the story we have so far. Its mostly a re work of the old Masquerade back-story, as we generally consider it to be better, however we have included a version of Camarilla in Rome ironically under the name Invictus.(Role reversal)
I think this is a pretty interesting and good idea and it makes pretty good sense to me. Even if I don't really agree entirly with the set-up of Clans within each sect. The problem that I see is the old Masquerade problem of treating groups of vampires, most importantly the Clans, as great unified monoliths when, to my understanding they are usually pretty much a gathering of individuals who are more concerned with their own personal goals and agendas rather than being a a cog in "the plan" that's been worked out by "the man". I must also point out that making Hannibal (the famous) a Kindred don't really work for me, as in making most historical figures into supernatural creatures.
Gurkhal
problem of treating groups of vampires, most importantly the Clans, as great unified monoliths when, to my understanding they are usually pretty much a gathering of individuals who are more concerned with their own personal goals and agendas
Phalin
Well this is true, but remember that a clan being a member of a faction simply represents that a clan has officially joint that faction with the agreement of the clans elders, it dos not mean that all members of the clan have anything to do with that faction.
Gangrel for instance at the end of VtM are a Independent Clan, with members in the Camarilla, and Anarchs. As well as the Sabbat if you consider anti-trib as well. The clan’s position will not stop some from going and doing what they want to do.
Even if I don't really agree entirly with the set-up of Clans
Well pleas if you have some suggestions pleas don’t hold back, nothing is written in stone.
Note: the plan once the history is complete is to have all the original clans possibly excluding the Gangrel, within there original VtM Sect, if that is you dislike.
I must also point out that making Hannibal (the famous) a Kindred don't really work for me, as in making most historical figures into supernatural creatures.
It’s a valid point but we decided to use Hannibal the Great as a kindred as he has been one from first edition of VtM, besides he makes a very affective Brujah if you look at his history, he fits the dark ages Brujah stereotype of the warrior philosopher very well. And as a not he is not the only historical kindred out there, Oscar Wilde (Playwright and Poet, WoD1), Béla Lugosi (Actor Played Dracula, LabN), and there are reference to may other, Pre First Tradition famous kindred, as well as semi-mythic and mythic character including Menelaus, think he is king of Sparta and Helen of Troy.
Phalin: Phalin Well this is true, but remember that a clan being a member of a faction simply represents that a clan has officially joint that faction with the agreement of the clans elders, it dos not mean that all members of the clan have anything to do with that faction. Gangrel for instance at the end of VtM are a Independent Clan, with members in the Camarilla, and Anarchs. As well as the Sabbat if you consider anti-trib as well. The clan’s position will not stop some from going and doing what they want to do. I understand what you mean and I agree with you in that it don't necessary include the "entire Clan", but it does show that a vast majority of the Clan is indeed in a political unity ruled from the top, and that those who are not are in a vast minority. I'd instead write it up like this, although this is of course after my own taste and I understand many people won't agree with this. I also understand that mine is a lot longer, but I hope that won’t bother you.
Phalin: Phalin Well this is true, but remember that a clan being a member of a faction simply represents that a clan has officially joint that faction with the agreement of the clans elders, it dos not mean that all members of the clan have anything to do with that faction. Gangrel for instance at the end of VtM are a Independent Clan, with members in the Camarilla, and Anarchs. As well as the Sabbat if you consider anti-trib as well. The clan’s position will not stop some from going and doing what they want to do.
· The Carthians were formed in ancient Greece, to a vast majority consisting of Brujah vampires. Eventually, as the influence of other Kindred began to increase many Carthians moved to North Africa and the grand city of Carthage. Carthian Kindred however remained active within Greece to the end of the Peloponessian War when Athen, the democratic, and Carthian, stronghold in the area was finally defeated and the Carthians dreams in Greece were crushed, and many of the remaining Carthians left for Carthage.
· The Invictus was formed in Rome by Roman Kindred as a respons to both the growing power of Rome and the growing population which of course also included a greater Kindred presence in the city. Following the example set by Roman Kindred, the Invictus spread out and forced the vampires now in Roman controlled territory, directly or indirectly, to submission to the Invictus. The Invictus consisted mostly of Ventrue, Lasombra, Malkavian and Cappadocian vampires as these were the most numerous Clans in Italy at the time.
· As Rome and Carthage came into conflict with each other the Invictus and the Carthians were likewise drawn into the battle against each other. Origionally the conflict had been mostly regarded as a mortal affair, but as the fortunes of war started to influence the station of the two great cities, both Sects realized that the outcome of the growing conflict in the western Mediterannian would affect Kindred as much as mortals. Thus Kindred from both groups started to be more and more invested, and many personally took part in various parts of the wars. In the end however Carthage was destroyed and the Carthians scattered. Many either fleed to other North African cities and most often forced to accept submission to the Invictus, or escaped towards the north and other parts of Europe.
· Among those fleeing north, several carried their grudges against Rome and the Invictus and took what oppertunity they could to harm either of their enemies. The most important of these attempts were carried out by an elder Carthian Brujah around 300 AD. Claiming to be the very Hannibal who had set Rome trembeling long before he started to gather support among the remaining Carthians to claim a bloody vengence for the fall of Carthage. In disguise, some say as a Brujah who had submited to the Invictus while others mentions as a Toreador, Lasombra or Malkavian, he travelled to Rome and managed to drive a wedge into the Invictus. This elder presented evidence for, and convinced many Lasombra, that there was a conspiracy among the Ventrue ranks, fulled by the Clan's myths of their supposedly superior origion, that had made them decide that only Ventrue carried the "right blood" to hold power and position, and that the entire Lasombra Clan was to be dispossessed of it to the last member. While it was true that such sentiments were gaining adherents, the Brujah elder spread seeds of paranoia among the Lasombra which said that every single Ventrue was involved.
· Afraid of "Ventrue intriges" many Lasombra claimed dissolution of their Invictus membership, which in turn prompted many Ventrue supremists to make claims of the degenerated characteristic carried within the blood of the Lasombra, and as the Invictus took actions, driven on to a large part by Ventrue vampires, the fear of a "Ventrue conspiracy" was further entrenched against the Lasombra, continuing in a circle of growing hostility. Cooler heads in both Clans that called for patience and contemplation of the situation were often laballed as traitors or infiltrators. The other vampires of the Invictus found themselves divided by the two sides, some chosing to support the Lasombra due to seeing the growing trend among the Ventrue as a threat that had to be stopped now even if they didn't necessary distance themselves from the Invictus, while some supported the Ventrue and the Invictus against the "seperatists" and some stepped away from the frontlines and decided to see how things evolved.
· An as yet unnamed clan enters an underground Temple and mausoleum, and enters Torpa to be awakened in the future. “Well I simply don't know much about this to write something good.”
·As the Invictus weakened itself through their struggles, Carthians were stirring and grewing influence among the tribes of Central and Eastern Europe. "Hannibal" himself growing a webb of influence from lies, gold and blood within the court of the Visigothic king Alaric.
· With an escalating war within the Invictus the Sect's slide into disintegration picks up momentum when a previously unknown group of vampires called Giovanni in many cases seeks out and seemingly exclusively kills Cappadocians, which makes many members of the Clan drift away from the conflict within the Invictus in order to protect themselves from this threat.
· Urged on by the so-called “Hannibal” the Carthians attack the Invictus in 400 AD when Alaric invades Italy with his Visigoths, accompanied by “Hannibal” and a brood of vampires, both Carthians seeking vengeance and Germanic vampires seeking glorious battle, domains and riches to claim. While Alaric and his Kindred puppet-master ravages Italy, although with shifting success, other Carthians sends the Vandals, Alans and Suevi through Gaul and into Hispania. 410 AD takes and loot Rome, and in the ensuring chaos the Carthians and their Germanic allies strikes deep into the city and destroys the heart of the Invictus, killing many of its leaders or scattering them throughout the remains of the Roman empire, thus taking final vengeance for the fall of Carthage. · Although never disbanded the Invictus becomes more and more obsolete. Unable to provide aid or keep control after its horrific losses to the Carthians, the various domains becomes independent of any greater community. And as the Roman empire falls and Germanic tribes moves in, the Invictus loses all relevance to the Kindred who adapt, with shifting success to the changing tides of new humans as well as many new Kindred wandering in with as little understanding or sympathy for the Invictus. · After the fall of the Invictus, the Lasombra and Ventrue conflict slowly died away as communications broke down and it was reduced to a series of personal conflicts, most of whom had been solved around 700 AD, save for a very few. In 900 AD, a group of elder Ventrue and Lasombra met, although after much negotiations and with distrust still clinging to them, and formed and official peace treaty to the “Clan War” as they chose to call it. This treaty naturally meant little to those who had either not existed during the time, those who had solved their matters or those that still held and fought their grudges. But its seen as an official date nevertheless. Where this meeting took place, who took initiative to it, who were present and what the treaty actually said is something that shifts with depending on who is telling it. · Around this time was also the time when the First Anarch Revolt broke out as childer throughout the former Roman empire rattled the cages and chains holding them to their sires and elders, and initially claiming some success. This tendency was however crushed by the tyranny of the elders, much due to the relatively low number of younger Kindred involved. Although defeated, the First Anarch Revolt made an imprint for future generations of oppressed neonates, for even if most of the Anarchs were either killed in battle or forcefully pressed into submission, it showed the elders were not invincible and that there was an alternative to passive slavery to older monsters, as had been accepted by a majority of vampires as the normal status of things. · As the mortals left the Dark Ages and came into the Middle Ages the numbers of mortal grew along with the number of Kindred. Sinking their fangs into every aspect of mortal existence the Kindred gathered power to themselves not seen since the height of the Invictus, and some say even more than in the Roman nights. But with power came fear or losing it, greed for more and arrogance, leading to search for ever more power and ruthless crushing of any threat to the individual vampire’s stations. Kindred clashed by the hundreds throughout the nights of Europe and mortal lords lead servants by the thousands into war according to machinations or order of undead tyrants. More than a few Kindred even claimed the vampires to be so superior that there was no need to hide from humans. Feeding, fighting and lording over mortals openly as creatures of the night or even gods in the still Pagan east they relished in the pleasure of power. All this brought the eyes of the Vatican down upon the cancer growing in humanity, and that caused the formation of the Inquisition to break the slavery of undead monsters under which the children of Seth were suffering. · At the height of the narcissistic rule of the Kindred around 1200 AD, two forces attack their unchallenged rule over the night. One was the onslaught of the Inquisition, both in the form of agitating priest and monks urging cowed servants to rise against their oppressors, in the form of crusaders seeking paradise and forgiveness through holy battle and in the form of Inquisitors who hunted down the undead, one by one, and coordinated the efforts to destroy the Kindred. The other force was the Second Anarch Revolt. With all the power of the world at their grasp, the neonates and childer of the Kindred grew hungry for their share, something most of them were denied by ever more megalomaniac elders and sires. A large number of these younger vampires chose not to submit in passive submission, but arose to claim the share they many of them felt deserving of while others did so out of spite and hatred for their masters are years of slavery and a few because they thought they would make better masters over the mortal than the current ones. Whatever their reasons most of them called themselves, or were called, Anarchs after the First Anarch Revolt. Amidst the chaos of the great nocturnal war that engulfed entire Europe from Ireland in the west to Russia in the east, and many says it also took place in Africa and the Middle East, the Masquerade was stretched to the breaking point. One Kindred, a Toreador called Rafael de Corazon, observed what happened around him and decided that if the Kindred were to survive they would need to band together once more into the Invictus of the Roman nights to maintain order and prevent the vicious infighting of the Anarch Revolts, and to sink away from the eyes of humanity before the Inquisition could destroy them all. Seeking support among a great number of Kindred throughout Europe, and although a number of Kindred did find the proposition appealing, most looked at it with suspicion, calling it a honey bait into slavery for the young, as intolerant limitations on the freedom of the Kindred or as a plot by Rafael to make gain power for himself. · Although met by much hostility, a fair number of Kindred agreed with Rafael and they formed the Invictus in attempt to solve the problems the Kindred were facing. Most of the members were coming from the Ventrue, Toreador, Nosferatu and Salubri Clans, of which the last was the one that after its size provided, relatively, most members. · Seen as a threat or enemy by both the Anarchs as well as the elders and their loyalist childer, the Invictus came under attack from all sides, and while cooperation at first provided strength to hold their enemies off, infighting soon broke out within the Invictus, and at the same time the Salubri were in many cases forced to look to their own protection as a group of vampires known as House Tremere, made inroads against them with a single-minded focus in a war against the Clan itself it would seem. Several Kindred saw parallels between these “Tremere” and the Giovanni that had attacked the Cappadocians in Antiquity. After around a hundred years, the Invictus finally collapsed against the combined pressure of their enemies with the final straw being the virtual extermination of the Salubri by the Tremer, including, according to rumors, the Salubri’s Antediluvian. Those who had not fallen into Final Death, torpor or renounced the sect before of their enemies mostly renounced or concealed their Invictus sympathies to save their unlives. Of note is however how few of the Sects members that fell to agents or actions of the Inquisition. · Undaunted by previous failure Rafael de Corazon silently sought new support for a new attempt to organize a new attempt to solve the problems of those nights. Although with aid and advice from the elder known as Hardestadt or Clan Ventrue, who shared many of Rafael’s ideas, the new foundations for a new organization were laid to be different from the Invictus and more to meet the demands of the Kindred active during that time. Once again seeking support and finding it among previous members, as well as finding many new supporters, who were in many cases tired of the constant chaos and violence and looking for something else, among them a fair number of Brujah Kindred. The Camarilla was officially founded in 1347, drawing a majority of its members from the Ventrue, Toreador, Nosferatu and Brujah Clans. Phalin: Phalin Well pleas if you have some suggestions pleas don’t hold back, nothing is written in stone. Note: the plan once the history is complete is to have all the original clans possibly excluding the Gangrel, within there original VtM Sect, if that is you dislike. Well it depends entirly on what you’re going to do. If you aren’t going to change the Clans to any greater degree, then I think that WW’s standard set-up is the best. However, if you’re thinking about changing more stuff then I might have something to add. http://www.shadownessence.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32127 Is this by the way one of your guys by the way, or is it unrelated? Phalin: Phalin It’s a valid point but we decided to use Hannibal the Great as a kindred as he has been one from first edition of VtM, besides he makes a very affective Brujah if you look at his history, he fits the dark ages Brujah stereotype of the warrior philosopher very well. And as a not he is not the only historical kindred out there, Oscar Wilde (Playwright and Poet, WoD1), Béla Lugosi (Actor Played Dracula, LabN), and there are reference to may other, Pre First Tradition famous kindred, as well as semi-mythic and mythic character including Menelaus, think he is king of Sparta and Helen of Troy
· Although never disbanded the Invictus becomes more and more obsolete. Unable to provide aid or keep control after its horrific losses to the Carthians, the various domains becomes independent of any greater community. And as the Roman empire falls and Germanic tribes moves in, the Invictus loses all relevance to the Kindred who adapt, with shifting success to the changing tides of new humans as well as many new Kindred wandering in with as little understanding or sympathy for the Invictus.
· After the fall of the Invictus, the Lasombra and Ventrue conflict slowly died away as communications broke down and it was reduced to a series of personal conflicts, most of whom had been solved around 700 AD, save for a very few. In 900 AD, a group of elder Ventrue and Lasombra met, although after much negotiations and with distrust still clinging to them, and formed and official peace treaty to the “Clan War” as they chose to call it. This treaty naturally meant little to those who had either not existed during the time, those who had solved their matters or those that still held and fought their grudges. But its seen as an official date nevertheless. Where this meeting took place, who took initiative to it, who were present and what the treaty actually said is something that shifts with depending on who is telling it.
· Around this time was also the time when the First Anarch Revolt broke out as childer throughout the former Roman empire rattled the cages and chains holding them to their sires and elders, and initially claiming some success. This tendency was however crushed by the tyranny of the elders, much due to the relatively low number of younger Kindred involved. Although defeated, the First Anarch Revolt made an imprint for future generations of oppressed neonates, for even if most of the Anarchs were either killed in battle or forcefully pressed into submission, it showed the elders were not invincible and that there was an alternative to passive slavery to older monsters, as had been accepted by a majority of vampires as the normal status of things.
· As the mortals left the Dark Ages and came into the Middle Ages the numbers of mortal grew along with the number of Kindred. Sinking their fangs into every aspect of mortal existence the Kindred gathered power to themselves not seen since the height of the Invictus, and some say even more than in the Roman nights. But with power came fear or losing it, greed for more and arrogance, leading to search for ever more power and ruthless crushing of any threat to the individual vampire’s stations. Kindred clashed by the hundreds throughout the nights of Europe and mortal lords lead servants by the thousands into war according to machinations or order of undead tyrants. More than a few Kindred even claimed the vampires to be so superior that there was no need to hide from humans. Feeding, fighting and lording over mortals openly as creatures of the night or even gods in the still Pagan east they relished in the pleasure of power. All this brought the eyes of the Vatican down upon the cancer growing in humanity, and that caused the formation of the Inquisition to break the slavery of undead monsters under which the children of Seth were suffering.
· At the height of the narcissistic rule of the Kindred around 1200 AD, two forces attack their unchallenged rule over the night. One was the onslaught of the Inquisition, both in the form of agitating priest and monks urging cowed servants to rise against their oppressors, in the form of crusaders seeking paradise and forgiveness through holy battle and in the form of Inquisitors who hunted down the undead, one by one, and coordinated the efforts to destroy the Kindred. The other force was the Second Anarch Revolt. With all the power of the world at their grasp, the neonates and childer of the Kindred grew hungry for their share, something most of them were denied by ever more megalomaniac elders and sires. A large number of these younger vampires chose not to submit in passive submission, but arose to claim the share they many of them felt deserving of while others did so out of spite and hatred for their masters are years of slavery and a few because they thought they would make better masters over the mortal than the current ones. Whatever their reasons most of them called themselves, or were called, Anarchs after the First Anarch Revolt. Amidst the chaos of the great nocturnal war that engulfed entire Europe from Ireland in the west to Russia in the east, and many says it also took place in Africa and the Middle East, the Masquerade was stretched to the breaking point. One Kindred, a Toreador called Rafael de Corazon, observed what happened around him and decided that if the Kindred were to survive they would need to band together once more into the Invictus of the Roman nights to maintain order and prevent the vicious infighting of the Anarch Revolts, and to sink away from the eyes of humanity before the Inquisition could destroy them all. Seeking support among a great number of Kindred throughout Europe, and although a number of Kindred did find the proposition appealing, most looked at it with suspicion, calling it a honey bait into slavery for the young, as intolerant limitations on the freedom of the Kindred or as a plot by Rafael to make gain power for himself.
· Although met by much hostility, a fair number of Kindred agreed with Rafael and they formed the Invictus in attempt to solve the problems the Kindred were facing. Most of the members were coming from the Ventrue, Toreador, Nosferatu and Salubri Clans, of which the last was the one that after its size provided, relatively, most members.
· Seen as a threat or enemy by both the Anarchs as well as the elders and their loyalist childer, the Invictus came under attack from all sides, and while cooperation at first provided strength to hold their enemies off, infighting soon broke out within the Invictus, and at the same time the Salubri were in many cases forced to look to their own protection as a group of vampires known as House Tremere, made inroads against them with a single-minded focus in a war against the Clan itself it would seem. Several Kindred saw parallels between these “Tremere” and the Giovanni that had attacked the Cappadocians in Antiquity. After around a hundred years, the Invictus finally collapsed against the combined pressure of their enemies with the final straw being the virtual extermination of the Salubri by the Tremer, including, according to rumors, the Salubri’s Antediluvian. Those who had not fallen into Final Death, torpor or renounced the sect before of their enemies mostly renounced or concealed their Invictus sympathies to save their unlives. Of note is however how few of the Sects members that fell to agents or actions of the Inquisition.
· Undaunted by previous failure Rafael de Corazon silently sought new support for a new attempt to organize a new attempt to solve the problems of those nights. Although with aid and advice from the elder known as Hardestadt or Clan Ventrue, who shared many of Rafael’s ideas, the new foundations for a new organization were laid to be different from the Invictus and more to meet the demands of the Kindred active during that time. Once again seeking support and finding it among previous members, as well as finding many new supporters, who were in many cases tired of the constant chaos and violence and looking for something else, among them a fair number of Brujah Kindred. The Camarilla was officially founded in 1347, drawing a majority of its members from the Ventrue, Toreador, Nosferatu and Brujah Clans.
Phalin: Phalin Well pleas if you have some suggestions pleas don’t hold back, nothing is written in stone. Note: the plan once the history is complete is to have all the original clans possibly excluding the Gangrel, within there original VtM Sect, if that is you dislike.
Well it depends entirly on what you’re going to do. If you aren’t going to change the Clans to any greater degree, then I think that WW’s standard set-up is the best. However, if you’re thinking about changing more stuff then I might have something to add.
http://www.shadownessence.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32127
Is this by the way one of your guys by the way, or is it unrelated?
Phalin: Phalin It’s a valid point but we decided to use Hannibal the Great as a kindred as he has been one from first edition of VtM, besides he makes a very affective Brujah if you look at his history, he fits the dark ages Brujah stereotype of the warrior philosopher very well. And as a not he is not the only historical kindred out there, Oscar Wilde (Playwright and Poet, WoD1), Béla Lugosi (Actor Played Dracula, LabN), and there are reference to may other, Pre First Tradition famous kindred, as well as semi-mythic and mythic character including Menelaus, think he is king of Sparta and Helen of Troy
It’s a valid point but we decided to use Hannibal the Great as a kindred as he has been one from first edition of VtM, besides he makes a very affective Brujah if you look at his history, he fits the dark ages Brujah stereotype of the warrior philosopher very well. And as a not he is not the only historical kindred out there, Oscar Wilde (Playwright and Poet, WoD1), Béla Lugosi (Actor Played Dracula, LabN), and there are reference to may other, Pre First Tradition famous kindred, as well as semi-mythic and mythic character including Menelaus, think he is king of Sparta and Helen of Troy
I think I understand what you’re going for, even if I entirely disagree. I really think it’s a mistake to reuse historical figures as supernatural creatures. I’d say better to be original or just hint that it might be the same person. Although mythical figures are of course another matter.
Thanks Gurkhal you have made some interesting points we have incorporated a couple of you suggestions and re works into are full history, that is know 173 pages long may need to cut that down a bit.
In particular we have tried to portray the idea that the clan elders have decided that they belong to a faction and that the clan members have then been covered by that membership by default rather than by involvement.
I also made you point about famous kindred and while we have not removed Hannibal we have agreed that keeping them to a minimal is the best option.
Oh and no his is not one of my lot no, some interesting stuff he is working on though. Strange but interesting
Well as usual I have some more things I would like everyone’s opinion on.
Generation
Blood Pool
Blood / Turn
Max. Trait
x-15th
6
0
5
1-14th
2-13th
7
3-12th
8
4-11th
9
5-10th
10
1
6-9th
12
7-8th
14
2
8-7th
16
9-6th
20
10-5th
30
Purity
x
4
3
Age (Years)
Humanity
x-100
-0
100-200
-1
200-300
300-400
-2
400-500
500-600
-3
600-700
700-800
-4
800-900
-5
900-1000
-6
1000+
-8
· The Malkavian Question, Dominate or Dementation or other Equivalent. What is the correct discipline for them, they originally had dominate, then some hade Dementation then they all had Dementation.
Phalin:· The Malkavian Question, Dominate or Dementation or other Equivalent. What is the correct discipline for them, they originally had dominate, then some hade Dementation then they all had Dementation.
Phalin:First off the new alternative to Generation and blood potency we have been working on, it still is not fully completed but would like everyone’s impute, currently it is a group of 3, 1-10 rating Generation, Blood Purity, and Age, and the total Blood Pool and Blood/Turn rating spread over the three, the hope is this we prevent some of the abuse of the current systems, I would happier with 3, 1-5 ratings but we simply cannot get the generational and purity ranges we want it, the principal is simple you have points in etch of these and they stack up not exactly complicated, we do intend to make further modifications to this, hopefully with some impute from you.
Phalin: Thanks Gurkhal you have made some interesting points we have incorporated a couple of you suggestions and re works into are full history, that is know 173 pages long may need to cut that down a bit. In particular we have tried to portray the idea that the clan elders have decided that they belong to a faction and that the clan members have then been covered by that membership by default rather than by involvement. I also made you point about famous kindred and while we have not removed Hannibal we have agreed that keeping them to a minimal is the best option.
Thanks Gurkhal sorry for not responding sooner bad week at work,
Well, it looks very complicated for a start.
Ok well yes it is more complicated, but not as complicated as it probably looks, just a matter of adding some numbers together really still hoping we can cut it down to 5 point ratings instead of 10s but it’s a bit difficult. Anyway
1-dot, 14th
2-dot,
1-dot, 100-200
Total
If you have some ideas pleas let me know, I am always happy to hear other peoples thoughts.
But first of all, what are you trying to achieve with it?
As far as reasons for ding this they are very simple, have you ever looked at the average generation of player characters in VtM, I did and found the average was 9 or 4 dots, now this got my thinking that generation was simply to powerful a feature, and later when we started with VtR I began to se the same thing happening with blood potency everyone spending as much as possible to increase it,
Now I am not a fan of power gaming but in VtM you had little option because generation determined a massive amount about you character and about how well you character would be treated by the higher ups. And despite requiem solving some of these problems, the core fact that one characteristic determined so much about you character it made power gaming almost a common occurrence
So I suppose what we are trying to achieve is a way to generate a power gamer proof system, that will not require players to be of low generation, but that will not detrimentally affect game play, I personally am still not happy with this system but as I am without another alternative. For now this is that we have.
We did consider a number of other possibilities (See Below)
· Blood Pool = A Base Number + Stamina Rating · Blood Pool = A Clan Base Number + Stamina Rating or Generation Rating · Blood Pool Background Blood / Turn · Blood / Turn = A Clan Base Number + Stamina Rating or Generation Rating · Blood / Turn = Generation Rating – Humanity Rating (idea was lese human or more monstrous a character the more blood they can use) · Age Background Rating Thanks for the continued interest
· Blood Pool = A Clan Base Number + Stamina Rating or Generation Rating · Blood Pool Background Blood / Turn · Blood / Turn = A Clan Base Number + Stamina Rating or Generation Rating · Blood / Turn = Generation Rating – Humanity Rating (idea was lese human or more monstrous a character the more blood they can use) · Age Background Rating Thanks for the continued interest
· Blood Pool Background Blood / Turn · Blood / Turn = A Clan Base Number + Stamina Rating or Generation Rating · Blood / Turn = Generation Rating – Humanity Rating (idea was lese human or more monstrous a character the more blood they can use) · Age Background Rating Thanks for the continued interest
· Blood / Turn = A Clan Base Number + Stamina Rating or Generation Rating · Blood / Turn = Generation Rating – Humanity Rating (idea was lese human or more monstrous a character the more blood they can use) · Age Background Rating Thanks for the continued interest
· Blood / Turn = Generation Rating – Humanity Rating (idea was lese human or more monstrous a character the more blood they can use) · Age Background Rating Thanks for the continued interest
· Age Background Rating Thanks for the continued interest
Thanks for the continued interest
Phalin:Thanks Gurkhal sorry for not responding sooner bad week at work,
Phalin:So I suppose what we are trying to achieve is a way to generate a power gamer proof system, that will not require players to be of low generation, but that will not detrimentally affect game play, I personally am still not happy with this system but as I am without another alternative. For now this is that we have.
Phalin: Thanks for the continued interest
Thanks for the interest, in this; we are currently having some play test games to see what works and what did not work. Next week I will hopefully be able to post a definitive list of: clans, lineages, disciplines and bloodline.
a "power gamer proof" system is more or less impossible. i haven't experienced any of the problems that you are naming.
Well you probably correct, but at least if we can make is a little more difficult for them it good, I am suppressed about you not having encountered some of the problems. must just be my group
Phalin:Thanks for the interest, in this; we are currently having some play test games to see what works and what did not work. Next week I will hopefully be able to post a definitive list of: clans, lineages, disciplines and bloodline.