ghelm23:Speaking of this myth, i would like to launch of Beijing in the operation of our Appendix Two. China has a rich history of the legend of the dragon, as well as a social protocol that gathers the frown in the attack to the images Dragon (OR the dragons itself, in this case). A history set in a place so easily could be a virtue: the board game of chess of the political fight. Besides the communism exists all it to play with
CJC:The increased dice pool on both sides means a reduced possibility for chance rolls and vicariously a reduced chance of dramatic failure. Do we want to keep this as a unique dragon mechanic, or should we chop off one attribute on each side (So Strength + Stamina + Survival + Wrath versus Target Stamina + Target Composure would become Stamina/Strength + Survival + Wrath versus Target Stamina/Composure)?
Dragon the Embers Wiki: ''Status 5:'' When a Bloody Chalice Knight at this status is within 15 yards of a supernatural being, he is overcome with the peculiar symptom of sweating blood. This is not from malignant contagious disease (Though seeing him sweat blood might make someone knowledgable in medicine nervous for that reason), but a means of detecting non-human targets for his next ritual. The blood also conceals how wounded the Knight is, hiding how much lethal damage he's suffered under the surge of blood. Anyone trying to determine how hurt the Knight is (except with supernatural power) suffers a -3 to their attempt. In addition, the Knight has been well-trained in the detection of various minor details which betray the true nature of a supernatural being. Despite the fact there may be no physical signs, the Knight has learned the mannerisms attached to the supernatural state. A knight can recognize any supernatural being for which he has an Occult Specialty after one scene of observation by rolling ''Wits + Composure -3''. This observation can be 'aimed' over multiple scenes to reduce the penalty. Status 5 Knights don't sweat blood for human-derivative supernaturals like Hunters and Mages, but can still detect them through observation.
''Status 5:'' When a Bloody Chalice Knight at this status is within 15 yards of a supernatural being, he is overcome with the peculiar symptom of sweating blood. This is not from malignant contagious disease (Though seeing him sweat blood might make someone knowledgable in medicine nervous for that reason), but a means of detecting non-human targets for his next ritual. The blood also conceals how wounded the Knight is, hiding how much lethal damage he's suffered under the surge of blood. Anyone trying to determine how hurt the Knight is (except with supernatural power) suffers a -3 to their attempt.
In addition, the Knight has been well-trained in the detection of various minor details which betray the true nature of a supernatural being. Despite the fact there may be no physical signs, the Knight has learned the mannerisms attached to the supernatural state. A knight can recognize any supernatural being for which he has an Occult Specialty after one scene of observation by rolling ''Wits + Composure -3''. This observation can be 'aimed' over multiple scenes to reduce the penalty.
Status 5 Knights don't sweat blood for human-derivative supernaturals like Hunters and Mages, but can still detect them through observation.
Dragon the Embers Lexicon: aspect Attra Breath Brood Bonded Challenger Code Collapse, the Common aspect Daylight Devourer Domain Dominion Dragon-Born Embers School Final Death Finder Furnace Heart Hydra Inheritor Knight Lair Metamorphosis Method Method aspect Non-Method aspect Oroboroi (or-ROB-or-roy) Oroborus (or-ROB-or-us) Philosophy Philosophy of Ash Philosophy of Blood Philosophy of Bone Philosophy of Envy Philosophy of Greed Philosophy of Pride Philosophy of Sloth Philosophy of Sweat Philosophy of Tears Philosophy of Wrath Red Pearl Saintly Devil School Sect Shadow Slayer Trickster True Form True Heart Twilight Underworld
Shock:edit- i noticed on the wiki that the True Heart merit gives a Dragon fertility. im hoping this relates to the ability to make human offspring since making more Dragons would counter to the mood.
CJC:EDIT: Yeah, that's some pretty awesome work on the method stereotypes. Are we going to do stereotypes by main philosophy too?
CJC:This brings to light an issue with the "Bond of Brood" merit... mainly the state of the heart if the Dragon is replaced. The heart has nine chambers, which means a single dragon could feasibly gift eight to mortals (Thereby reducing his max Furnace score to 2, but it's POSSIBLE). Now, if somebody comes along and eats that Dragon's little chunk of remaining Heart, what happens? I would assume the Heart becomes whole again, but how? Do the removed pieces reassemble? Do those bonded by brood perish when this happens? I would say yes to both, but we should discuss other possibilities as well.
CJC:Also... since the Brood-Bonded of two True Hearts has a unique piece of heart (As in, it wasn't removed from a living Dragon's Heart), could several be gathered to assemble a new Dragon Heart? They'd have to be genetically compatible (Nine Hearts from Nine Children born from the same two Dragons), and the knowledge that such an amalgamation is possible would be fiercely guarded if not lost to time. I know this (slightly) damages the theme, but the notion of somebody hunting down an entire Dragon's family just to cut out their hearts is pretty sweet.
Shock:should someone eat the heart of mortal withe the Bond of Blood, the chunk of the Heart simply goes back to the Dragon. nothing is gained at all.
Shock:let's leave the door open for a ST on what Dragons can do to make more of themselves. we can have this as a number of theories (kinda like how some Vampires think they can become mortal again by drinking his sire and grand sire's soul). it doesn't metagame and leaves the hand open for ST's to use.
CJC: Shock:should someone eat the heart of mortal withe the Bond of Blood, the chunk of the Heart simply goes back to the Dragon. nothing is gained at all. What happens to the mortals when that happens? Is it a part that's missed, or are they no worse off for the loss? By which I mean, do the bonded die when the Dragon dies final death?
CJC:I have two mechanics issues that we should discuss. The first is the thing I forgot last time I posted (I remembered it!). Both the "Attra" merit and the "Don't Touch My Stuff" Greed philosophy grant the Dragon valueables that are measured in Resource dots. Because of this, some Dragons have the potential to collect an exorbitant number of resource dots (to the sound of 20 or 30). While this works perfectly with the Calorie system (Where the Dragon gains 100 x Resource Dots Calories for each hour spent in the company of such wealth, or 200 x Resource Dots Calories if in True Form. That means the wealth has to be liquidated and readily available, something that the standard Resources Merit doesn't guarentee), it totally breaks the equipment value system. So here's what I think we should do: To start, we should adopt Cogitare's Resource houserule, in which each dot of the Resources Merit grants 'spending' dots for the month. (For example, somebody with 1 Resource dot can purchase equipment up to 1 Resource requirement within a single month. Somebody with 3 Resource dots in the merit can purchase equipment up to 1+2+3 or 6 resource dots in a single month, with a maximum of 3 dots on a single purchase. Somebody with 5 Resource dots in the merit can purchase equipment up to 1+2+3+4+5 or 15 resource dots in a single month, with a maximum of 5 dots on a single purchase.) Secondly, resources acquired from the two sources mentioned (The Attra wealth magnet and the Greed life-wealth) should be consumable resource dots. In other words, they count as resource dots for the sake of gathering Calories, but when liquidated for a purchase they are worth only their dot value (So a 4-dot vase is only worth 4 dots of equipment, not 10) and they are removed from the sheet. It is expensive to give up such treasures, but there is an advantage: for those without prerequisite resource dots equipment can be purchased with these consumable dots (So somebody selling a 5-dot statue could purchase equipment that has a 5-dot prerequisite, even if they only possess the 2-dot version of the Resources merit).
Shock:also, i think Gepetto had a question about the Scholar's code.
Shock:as for "Don't touch my stuff"... it seems fine to me. The person or thing trying to touch the Dragon's cursed object suffer (lethal?) damage equal to the number of dots of Resources the thing is worth. as the number of Resource the man turned object is worth, i would say equal to Stamina instead of subtracting the Health of the person vs the Dragon's Furnace. this would keep the mechanics is somewhat sane range while rewarding the Dragon.
Shock:how about this: the Attra merit gives a Dragon one free Resource dot per every 5 weeks. this may seem small but it carries over as dots start to stack and cap at 5 (i want to say 6 because in Damnation city, there is a point where a Vampire could basically turn a person into a millionaire with the amount of resources he has but for right now, let's keep it at 5).
Optional Reading: Archived for Conversation Purposes: There's one big problem with this: the free merit the player would recieve sequentially. I looked up "Resources" in the World of Darkness Core Rulebook (p115-116), and I found this important bit: "He might be able to afford one or two items with a cost equal to his Resources dots in a single month. Items with lower costs can be acquired more often. The Storyteller has final say on what's too much or what's too often." Cogitaire's houserule doesn't override this, it just defines it a little bit. That extra definition is really necessary with the volume of resources a Dragon can acquire. We can change the statement from "Within one month" to "Within a period determined by the Storyteller" and that should make it completely compatible with the current resources system. The only place where we start to really deviate from the established rules is with the 'consumable' resources. We can anchor it by labling the resources acquired by an Attra or by tithing resource "Points", which can be spent like Breath or Willpower. Each dot in Resources grants a certain number of resource "points" to be spent within a fiscal period (Probably a business quarter), with a spending limit on any single purchase equal to the dots in the Resources merit. Here's how it would work: Merit: Resources (1-5 dots) In addition to the rules presented in the WoD Core, Dragons apply the following to Resources: 1st Dot: 1 Resource point per fiscal period. (Can buy equipment with one-dot prerequisites for 1 resource point) 2nd Dot: 3 Resource points (1+2) per fiscal period. (Can buy equipment with two-dot prerequisites for 2 resource points, or one-dot equipment for 1 resource point) 3rd Dot: 6 Resource points (1+2+3) per fiscal period. (" " " " three-dot prereqs for 3 resource points, etc.) 4th Dot: 10 Resource points (1+2+3+4) per fiscal period. (" " " " four-dot prereqs for 4 resource points, etc.) 5th Dot: 15 Resource points (1+2+3+4+5) per fiscal period. (" " " " five-dot prereqs for 5 resource points, etc.) [Dragons can spend slightly more than the other templates within one fiscal period, to the sum of roughly one more purchase per period] Merit: Attra (1-6 dots) Accumulates a number of Resource points in a given fiscal period equal to its rating. Spending these resource points is limited to the restrictions listed in the Resources Merit. For an extra dot, the type and source of these resource points (Good Fortune, Illegal, Antique, etc.) can be specified. Breath: Metaphoric Calories (Furnace Mechanic) A Dragon can accumulate 25 Calories (Quartered from 100 Calories) for every four hours spent (4 times the original length) in the presence of Resource Points (Not dots, you don't get Calories for staring at your stocks online. It has to be liquid wealth). If in true form for the entirity of this hour, the number of Calories accumulated equals 50 per Resource Point. With 6 points of Resources, that's 900 Calories a day, if the Dragon spends the entire day with the money. In True Form, that's 1800 Calories, just short of a single point of Breath. With 15 points of Resources, that's 2250 or 4500 in True Form. Enough for 1-2 points of Breath in a single day. ...Come to think of it, that doesn't work very well. In fact, that's very bad. Dragons could potentially just pump breath by sleeping for weeks. Bad mechanic, Bad! Okay, so we'll throw out "Resource Points". I don't know what to do to fix it. EDIT: Actually, if we make it 10 Calories per point per four hours, and put a limit on the number of points a Dragon can hold (Like say, 20), it'd work just fine. We can make Attra add points once a week, and Resources add points once per fiscal period (Probably quarterly).
Archived for Conversation Purposes: There's one big problem with this: the free merit the player would recieve sequentially. I looked up "Resources" in the World of Darkness Core Rulebook (p115-116), and I found this important bit: "He might be able to afford one or two items with a cost equal to his Resources dots in a single month. Items with lower costs can be acquired more often. The Storyteller has final say on what's too much or what's too often." Cogitaire's houserule doesn't override this, it just defines it a little bit. That extra definition is really necessary with the volume of resources a Dragon can acquire. We can change the statement from "Within one month" to "Within a period determined by the Storyteller" and that should make it completely compatible with the current resources system. The only place where we start to really deviate from the established rules is with the 'consumable' resources. We can anchor it by labling the resources acquired by an Attra or by tithing resource "Points", which can be spent like Breath or Willpower. Each dot in Resources grants a certain number of resource "points" to be spent within a fiscal period (Probably a business quarter), with a spending limit on any single purchase equal to the dots in the Resources merit. Here's how it would work: Merit: Resources (1-5 dots) In addition to the rules presented in the WoD Core, Dragons apply the following to Resources: 1st Dot: 1 Resource point per fiscal period. (Can buy equipment with one-dot prerequisites for 1 resource point) 2nd Dot: 3 Resource points (1+2) per fiscal period. (Can buy equipment with two-dot prerequisites for 2 resource points, or one-dot equipment for 1 resource point) 3rd Dot: 6 Resource points (1+2+3) per fiscal period. (" " " " three-dot prereqs for 3 resource points, etc.) 4th Dot: 10 Resource points (1+2+3+4) per fiscal period. (" " " " four-dot prereqs for 4 resource points, etc.) 5th Dot: 15 Resource points (1+2+3+4+5) per fiscal period. (" " " " five-dot prereqs for 5 resource points, etc.) [Dragons can spend slightly more than the other templates within one fiscal period, to the sum of roughly one more purchase per period] Merit: Attra (1-6 dots) Accumulates a number of Resource points in a given fiscal period equal to its rating. Spending these resource points is limited to the restrictions listed in the Resources Merit. For an extra dot, the type and source of these resource points (Good Fortune, Illegal, Antique, etc.) can be specified. Breath: Metaphoric Calories (Furnace Mechanic) A Dragon can accumulate 25 Calories (Quartered from 100 Calories) for every four hours spent (4 times the original length) in the presence of Resource Points (Not dots, you don't get Calories for staring at your stocks online. It has to be liquid wealth). If in true form for the entirity of this hour, the number of Calories accumulated equals 50 per Resource Point. With 6 points of Resources, that's 900 Calories a day, if the Dragon spends the entire day with the money. In True Form, that's 1800 Calories, just short of a single point of Breath. With 15 points of Resources, that's 2250 or 4500 in True Form. Enough for 1-2 points of Breath in a single day. ...Come to think of it, that doesn't work very well. In fact, that's very bad. Dragons could potentially just pump breath by sleeping for weeks. Bad mechanic, Bad! Okay, so we'll throw out "Resource Points". I don't know what to do to fix it. EDIT: Actually, if we make it 10 Calories per point per four hours, and put a limit on the number of points a Dragon can hold (Like say, 20), it'd work just fine. We can make Attra add points once a week, and Resources add points once per fiscal period (Probably quarterly).
CJC: Shock:also, i think Gepetto had a question about the Scholar's code. Yeah, there's a problem with the good mode/bad mode swap mechanic. Any attempt to fix this would be just as bulky and ineffective, so I think we should just strip away the mechanic and make it a Storyteller initiated thing.
CJC: ...Because this is REALLY potent, I think we should reintroduce the 1 Willpower DOT cost to this ability, and make the roll instant at the end of the Breath expenditure, not extended as it is now.
CJC: EDIT: Actually, if we make it 10 Calories per point per four hours, and put a limit on the number of points a Dragon can hold (Like say, 20), it'd work just fine. We can make Attra add points once a week, and Resources add points once per fiscal period (Probably quarterly).
Shock:you have brought this up before... but as it a SotFE final power (which are more powerful than the Domain), i am inclined to agree with you.
Shock:that's what i was thinking. we either limited it and/or cap it at a stage to prevent it from being overpowered. also, what about the Horde Merit? how does this fit in to relationship between these three things?
Gepetto887: Here's the time it takes for you to get Breath from Hoard, depending on your Resources: Resources 1 Every week. Resources 2 Every five days. Resources 3 Every three days. Resources 4 Every other day. Resources 5 Every day So you won't need to eat at all for survival purposes at these levels (but keep in mind that you'll still be hungry, and if we're going with the "Higher Furnace equals more calories needed to start up your Furnace" thing, then you still need to eat those extra calories). Resources 5, Hoard 1 Resources 4, Hoard 2 Resources 3, Hoard 3 Resources 2, Hoard 5
Shock:also, im still dealing with the Crossover issues (dealing with Vampire right now) so i should have that up by tomorrow.
CJC:The Hoard Merit doubles the number of Calories each period riches provides. So Hoard 3 (The bottom rating) would make it 50 Calories every 6 hours (1250 in one sleep period for a wealthy dragon, that's 1/2 of a breath point per day). Hoard 5 (The top rating) would make it 200 Calories every 6 hours (5000 in one sleep period for a wealthy dragon, that's 2.5 breath per day, before spending to maintain the Furnace). That seems to be in agreement with the original function of the merit, albeit to a lesser degree. It's probably not the best solution, so if you can think of something better let me know.
CJC: Shock:also, im still dealing with the Crossover issues (dealing with Vampire right now) so i should have that up by tomorrow. Awesome. That is a really important job, and I'm glad you're working on it. We have to make sure the Oroboroi aren't overpowering the other supers in combat (I'm sure they're fine in social and mental tasks for the most part).