Dragon: The Embers

Here's a question that came up in the brain trust over here, how do we a bunch of people to play Dragons in the same game? Do we stick to only threats to the Dragon population at large to bind them together? Or do we arrange them along the lines of fighting philosophies? A few ideas in this arena would really help in trying to figure out how to make it a group game instead of a game of a bunch of individuals.
And what do we call a group of Dragons? A pod? A council? A flight? Hmmm.

@Shock
I love the fluff you got going on the vamps, very cool. But the blood effect you got listed seems to rub me the wrong way. I mean these Dragons have a firey core to them that builds in power as time allows, and if a vamp were to bite them, wouldn't it burn them, at least on a metaphysical level? That is if were sticking to the themes associated with the idea of having a Furnace inside them. If you want what you got, coolio, but to me it seems a bit off, at least for the vamps. Your idea towards easier time using powers seems to me would fit in better thematically with the Prometheans and their very similar trait of Azoth, Pyros, and the Transmutations. Just my two cents...

I've finished my once over of all the Aspects, and i can see no room for improvement or need to tweak what everyone has put down. Great job all!

Lostkith:

@Shock
I love the fluff you got going on the vamps, very cool. But the blood effect you got listed seems to rub me the wrong way. I mean these Dragons have a firey core to them that builds in power as time allows, and if a vamp were to bite them, wouldn't it burn them, at least on a metaphysical level? That is if were sticking to the themes associated with the idea of having a Furnace inside them. If you want what you got, coolio, but to me it seems a bit off, at least for the vamps. Your idea towards easier time using powers seems to me would fit in better thematically with the Prometheans and their very similar trait of Azoth, Pyros, and the Transmutations. Just my two cents...

actually, i didn't have an have an idea for the Blood for the Kindred. i never could come up with the effect. what i wrote about the blood effect is basically just a product of me throwing ideas of effects and curses at a dart board so i kinda of expected it to be the first one off the list.

as for burning them.. interesting. we could have it that it effects the Beast in some way or another. drinking it could send the Beast away for a hour only to come back with a vengeance and pissed at the Kindred.

Lostkith:

Here's a question that came up in the brain trust over here, how do we a bunch of people to play Dragons in the same game? Do we stick to only threats to the Dragon population at large to bind them together? Or do we arrange them along the lines of fighting philosophies? A few ideas in this arena would really help in trying to figure out how to make it a group game instead of a game of a bunch of individuals.

well, as much as Dragons have changed, they still are part human. the desire for social contact doesn't reach the extreme like Vampire (the Man's desire to have social contact with others like him and the Beast's desire to kick everyone off his lawn) but it still has an effect.

also, a Den (the name for a group of Dragons) may form when a Dragon simply can not have a Domain by himself (which is the case for dragons that are just starting out and no resources to fall back on). it is a cold dark world where you have Hunters who want to eat your Heart, Other Dragons who want to do the same, Mages who want to crack you open and probe you like a toad on a lab table, and God knows what else. it's better to have some friends on your side when you have to deal with them.



 

Lostkith:

Here's a question that came up in the brain trust over here, how do we a bunch of people to play Dragons in the same game? Do we stick to only threats to the Dragon population at large to bind them together? Or do we arrange them along the lines of fighting philosophies? A few ideas in this arena would really help in trying to figure out how to make it a group game instead of a game of a bunch of individuals.
And what do we call a group of Dragons? A pod? A council? A flight? Hmmm.

As Shock said, Dragons and their domains are like individual countries.  If you consider them in that lens, several motivations for collaborating become apparent: The union is fiscally beneficial for all involved parties, several domains on talking terms need to unite to defeat a common enemy, all parties are contributing towards mutual advancement, or there is protection in numbers.
In essence, they are Alliances in microcosm.

So... throwing out the Resource Points and making it simple again.  For the Hoard merit, we should make it have a minimum requirement of Resources, but I don't think it should convert Resources into a new merit.  For example, to get Hoard 1, you need at least Resources 1.  But that doesn't mean you lose your dot of Resources for purchasing Hoard.  Losing either Hoard or Resources dots should be a storyteller suggestion, not a mechanic.
On the mechanic side, we simply convert the listed Resources rate to the Hoard rate.  So for Hoard 1, the Dragon gets a free point of breath every 7 days she sleeps in her lair (Not sleeping the whole day, just spending a regular sleep period in the vicinity of the wealth).  Hoard 2 makes that 5 days, Hoard 3 makes it 3 days, Hoard 2 makes it 2 days, and Hoard 1 makes it every day.
Or maybe we should make it 1 month, 1 week, 4 days, 2 days, 1 day.  I'll let you pick, then I'll put Hoard on the Merits section and remove the 'sleeping with riches' Calories info.

i say a week. i say this mainly because this is just a fallback for the Dragon (his main way of getting Calories is by eating stuff)

also i think we are close enough where we can actually start playtesting the combat. do you agree or think we have a few more things to tweak before doing so?

Okay, I put the Hoard merit up on the Wiki.  Taking a closer look at it, it would seem the Wealth Magnet is the source of all our Resources problems.  I think we should turn it into a Storyteller hook, a long-held Dragon superstition with no proof of it actually working.  That way we don't have to provide specific mechanics for it.

Also, I think I'll change the "Death by Greed" from a valueable resource to a tool with massive bonuses.  We can come up with a special name for the tool (Graft comes to mind, but if you've got something better let me know).
The mechanics would be essentially the same, but instead of resource dots the overlap determines the bonus.  So if somebody dies by 3 Health Dots, they'd turn into a Graft that gives a +3 bonus when used in conjunction with another tool (You could tack the Graft onto your +2 Crowbar to make it +5).  Grafts could also become a merit, to replace the Attra merit.


On the matter of playtesting, yes Dragons are ready.  We should put them against at least two other templates first before we try them  against themselves, though.

Recommended test fights:

2 Dragons versus 5 Werewolves
1 Dragon versus 2 Vampires
2 Dragons versus 3 Mages

ok, are we going to host the playtest in this thread or start up another one?

I'd say go ahead and start another thread, so that we can continue to discuss mechanics HERE without breaking up the combat.

Do you need the Character sheet available before you start making Dragons?  It's not complete yet, and I have to email it to somebody for file hosting when it is finished.


EDIT:  We have generic dot distrubutions for Aspects, but none for Philosophies.  There also isn't any specificity of dot distribution for Aspects.  Here's what I'm thinking.

At character creation, you get:

5 Common aspect dots, 3 Method, and 2 Free.  (The fifth dot costs 2 dots, of course).  You get 2 philosophy dots, but one of them must go into your primary philosophy (So you can start with 2 dots in a philosophy, or with the start of two different philosophies.)

I should be finished with the first page tonight, and I can probably do the second tomorrow.

CJC:

I'd say go ahead and start another thread, so that we can continue to discuss mechanics HERE without breaking up the combat.

Do you need the Character sheet available before you start making Dragons?  It's not complete yet, and I have to email it to somebody for file hosting when it is finished.

well, check with Mr Gone. word has it that he's the king of sheets around here.

Finished the Character sheet.  I managed to make room for all 43 aspects on the second page (A bit excessive, but there really wasn't much more to put there).  I'll send a message to Mr. Gone later in the week.

Below is what I've come up with for the Introduction.  It's a big chunk (This'll be the last time I post big chunks in the thread, fyi, since the chapters will be much bigger) and there are some missing bits (Mainly, the Inspirations section).

NOTE:  This quote has been updated after feedback.

Introduction (Sans Credits):

© 2010 CCP hf. All rights reserved. Distribution without the written permission of the publisher is expressly forbidden.  Blank character sheets may be reproduced for personal use only. White Wolf, World of Darkness, Vampire the Requiem, Werewolf the Forsaken, Mage the Awakening, Hunter the Vigil, Changeling the Lost, Promethean the Created, and Geist the Sin-Eaters are registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved. The Storyteller System and Storytelling System are trademarks of CCP hf.  All rights reserved.

 

This book uses the supernatural for settings, characters, and themes.  All mystical and supernatural elements are fiction and intended for entertainment purposes only.  This book contains mature content.  Reader discretion is advised.

 

http://www.white-wolf.com

 

Dragon:  The Embers

Table of Contents

Prologue: Ominous Drums

Introduction

Chapter One: Fire of the Oroboroi

Chapter Two: Character

Chapter Three: Special Rules and Systems

Chapter Four: Storytelling and Antagonists

Appendix One: Aspect Factory

Appendix Two: Beijing

Epilogue: Silence

 

Introduction

 

(Full-Page Art Needed)

(Inter-Chapter Story needed.  Limit 1 Page)

 

When the word Dragon is uttered the first thought that flies across the minds of most is an outdated history lesson, or some myth about an impossible beast with greed as grand as brawn and a lust for terrorizing the local populace.  For some, dragons are spirits of natural events, a symbol of raw power and change.

Many political factions, including some quite despicable ones, use the Dragon as an emblem and a sign of power.  Monarchs and tyrants may falsely claim heritage to a draconic bloodline.  The idea of genetic right to rule is an old one indeed, and though evidence points to the contrary it is a tightly held belief in all forms of society.  My son will take over the business when I’m gone.  He’s my son, he’d be the best man for the job.  Obviously that is a light example of what could easily be a very controversial topic, but for the scope of this game simply consider that certain people are ‘born’ for the job, and certain people are born to lead.

If you gathered up all the world leaders and gave them an exam, what would they all have in common?  Perhaps the myth of dragon blood isn’t as far-fetched as it would seem.  Could the act of rising to power change a person?  Is the secretive life a leader lives for their own protection, or to hide something dark?  What is it that makes a leader a Leader?

 

A Game of Divine Right

Dragon: the Embers is the story of secret monsters, of the people who became more than human when they take control of the world around them.  It’s a story of tradition broken, of cutting one’s heart out to gain immortality at the cost of the future and of shunning the hubris of the past.  It’s also a story of genetic attrition; there are no new hearts to be had.  Dragons are on their way out, the smoldering remains of a once brilliant flame.  And someday the heat of those ashes will be gone.  The last flicker of light is the Dragons that remain; they are the Embers of the past.

Dragons have one crucial weakness that drives them mad; their heart.  Or Heart, rather.  Capital H.  By removing the Heart a Dragon can guarantee her immortality, for no matter how many times her body dies her Heart remains to bring her back.  But the Heart is also a great weakness, to be stolen and destroyed or consumed means the Dragon dies instantly—and likely is replaced by someone else.  This fact makes most of the Oroboroi incredibly paranoid, so much in fact that much of their long lives is spent trying to develop the perfect protection for this precious cargo.  Needless to say there is no such perfection.

Dragons disguise themselves as the humans they used to be, but that is not their true shape.  One may take on any number of their real traits with little effort, but while the truth may be more comfortable and more powerful, it is not discrete.  Since dragons are usually in positions of authority—be it actual authority or authority puppeteered—it is useful not to reveal these differences, firstly because it would be a publicity nightmare and secondly because it would no doubt lead to torches and pitchforks.  Part of being a modern Dragon is about finding ways to subtly take advantage of the powerful truth without revealing it.

Finding oneself raised so far above humanity can be dizzying, but members of the Oroboroi have to temper themselves with the fact that they chose this fate.  The only way to become a member is to eat the heart of an old member, and with the first bite that fate is sealed.  No matter how much a Dragon wants to pretend she’s human, the power that sets her apart will exist as long as she lives and will tug at her from afar should she shun it.  Embracing the new life completely isn’t an option either, the Dragon risks losing her perspective.  It takes respect for the power and the knowledge it isn’t self-affirming to live a Dragon’s life properly.

This is Dragon: the Embers—the Storytelling game of Forgotten Glory.

 

A Societal Metaphor

            Most dragons from the western myths are simply monsters, ravaging the countryside in search of meal and plunder.  A monstrous beast of six limbs, two being wings.  Something to be killed.  Virtually opposite are the eastern myths, in which dragons are seen as righteous beings in command of the waters of the world, akin to gods.   They are a symbol of purity and power, though sometimes those features can cause destruction.  It was the modern reinvention of the dragon that created the fire-breathing madly-intelligent hoarders.  For this book, we will be combining these three philosophies to create a new type of dragon.

            Embers Dragons are no more intelligent than people, seeing as they used to BE people.  They are also neither benevolent nor malevolent, they are both.  A necessary part of the world proper.  Embers Dragons gather valuables not particularly from greed, but to feed off the metaphoric value of them.  They have a heat-source burning in their gut—the furnace—and it takes quite a bit to keep it hot after all.  Finally, Embers Dragons have a psychic bond with their heart, and can survive so long as it is intact (Even if it is not in the body).  From this point on, when Dragon is capitalized it refers to Embers Dragons.

            So where does the metaphor for society start?  Replace ‘Dragon’ with ‘Leader’ and it becomes very clear.  In times of old leaders were born into their position, a genetic predisposition to lord over others.  But eventually the plebs beneath figured out leadership was not exclusive to royalty, and some rose up to claim the position.  Ironically they became just as the ones they’d replaced, initiating the cycle anew.

            It took a while, but eventually Dragons figured out how to protect themselves from usurpation.  Cutting out the heart, that was the secret.  A Dragon could die time and again, but so long as the heart is whole she can come back to reclaim her position.  This too is part of the metaphor.  Though a position can be lost time and again, the only way to eliminate a leader permanently is to destroy her.

 

Genetic Attrition

            If Dragon is a metaphor about leaders, why are their numbers dwindling?  Though leaders can be replaced, they are also destroyed by competitors.  As eliminations stack up the numbers dwindle, eventually ‘endangered’ becomes ‘final specimen’, and from there it isn’t even a baby step to extinction.

            So why not breed for more numbers?  History has shown that such a method does not work well.  Heirs to power are spoiled by their entitlement, and usually eradicated in a coup.  Dragons have also given up their right to genetic heirs by removing their Hearts, so such a notion is no longer even possible.  An inability to produce draconic children means negative population growth and thus negative population; the point being no new Dragons are born and so no new hearts bolster the population.

            This is not to say that Dragons are incapable of creating children.  The children are simply born 100% human, 100% of the time.

 

A Voluntary Madness of Heart

            A new Dragon is born when she consumes the heart of an old dragon, in its entirety.  This is a life-affirming experience, and the means through which the heart was acquired forever marks the type of beast she’ll be (It provided her with her Method).  Most know at least a little about what will happen when they take this step… after all, there’s rarely incentive to just eat a mysterious muscle for the fun of it.  Part of the personal horror stems from this foreshadowing; when actions lead to regret the Dragon can only blame herself.  After all, she took that first bite.

            The following metamorphosis is exhilarating if not just a little frightening.  The entire body burns as the furnace ignites, particularly in the region of the heart and throat.  Many parts become unfamiliar and foreign.  And in the midst of this, the draconic code of conduct flash-burns into the mind.  It takes time to adjust.  Of anything it is an unforgettable, if not solitary, experience.

 

Schools and Philosophies

            Almost immediately after the metamorphosis a Dragon proceeds to remove her heart and choose a school—The Dominion school of Embers or the Saintly Devil school of the Five Evils.  The code of conduct makes her aware of these options and the fact that her heart is the key to her longevity.  There are a rare few who refuse this decision, and thus keep their heart in chest.

            Each school provides a general mentality.  The Embers school doesn't deny their purpose but neither do they gorge.  The Five Evils school, on the other hand, live life with a binge-and-purge gusto.  The violent type of binge-and-purge gusto.  After choosing a school the Dragon chooses a main philosophy, the lens through which she examines all things.  This is not the only philosophy she can follow, but it is the one she holds with most regard.

 

 

Theme and Mood

            Though every story told with the Storyteller System is unique, stories that involve Dragons have some common ground regardless of setting or plot.  These anchors are the mood and theme, which are inescapably sewn into the state of Oroboroi membership.

 

Theme

            The prevalent theme in any Dragon game is divine right facing faded glory.  This often takes the form of relevence.  In a world that is evolving beyond a need for them Dragons as a group have to take a stab at importance or be trampled in the march of time.  Being natural leaders this attempt usually takes the form of climbing social ladders.

            Dashing to the top is dangerous business.  There’s nothing left to grab onto, with a great plummet waiting at just a single push.  Mortals are vicious competitors in this pursuit, but they are not the only threats.  Other things also vie for the reins.

 

Mood

            The mood of any Dragon game is simple: paranoia for the sake of self-preservation.  Despite the fact that they are practically indestructible, the critical weakness attached to this revival cycle is a matter of constant concern for dragons of any age.

            With the information revolution it has never been more dangerous to hold membership with the Oroboroi.  Whispers become screams as little fragments of truth slip free into the ether and more secrets become fact.  Though many are loathe to believe, there is always someone who is willing to research further.  And that research is becoming easier and easier.  There’s a reason exposure and extinction start the same way.

 

 

How to Use This Book

            A sampling of the Oroboroi in whole can be found in the Introduction; it’s a good section to check before planning a Dragon: The Embers game.

            Chapter One explores what is means to be a Dragon, from history to society to threats to domains.

            To make use of the storyteller system and craft a member of the Oroboroi, go to Chapter Two.  It details all the physical traits a Dragon can incorperate into her true form, as well as the mysterious powers Philosophies grant her.

            Chapter Three covers mechanics exclusive to Dragons, from assuming Oroboroi traits to Caloric requirements of the Furnace to the conditions of death and resurrection.  This chapter also covers the function of the Dragon Code, as well as special wound penalty mechanics new to this template.

            Story and setting swatches are the focus of Chapter 4, which provides a  range of different story seeds for basing a chronicle.  This chapter also delves further into the various antagonists a Dragon might face.

            In Appendix One the process of creating aspects and sects is explained in detail, providing a workshop for creating your own content.

            Finally Appendix Two covers the setting of Beijing, China.  (We haven’t done this appendix yet, so we can’t summarize it)

 

 

Sources and Inspiration

(Somebody else can work on this)

 

 

Lexicon

 

aspect: A physical trait of Dragonhood.  To manifest an aspect is to relinquish human features and become more divine.  To disband an aspect is to disguise the true nature and blend.

Attra: A wealth magnet in Oroboroi superstition.  Often believed to be double-edged.

Breath: The heat of a Dragon’s furnace, it fuels the Oroboroi and their mysterious powers.

Brood: A Dragon’s family unit.

Bonded: Mortals that possess a piece of Dragon heart in chest, usually as a gift.

Challenger: An Oroboroi who received her Heart as a prize for a test of skill; Challengers shine in matters of honor and hard work.

Code, the: The set of rules by which a Dragon is judged.

Collapse, the: The mythical end of Dominion in which mankind rose up to steal the hearts of the Oroboroi.  The birth of the two Schools.

Common aspect: A draconic trait common to Oroboroi of all methods.

Daylight: The Material world.

Den: An alliance of Oroboroi.

Devourer: A Dragon who stokes her furnace with the Hearts of others.

Domain: A Dragon’s range of property, both territorial and by population.

Dominion: The mythical time of monarchy by genetic right, ended by the Collapse.

Dragon-Born: A child born from a Dragon and Human mating.

Embers Schools: The group of schools practiced by the Embers Oroboroi, based off lessons learned in the Collapse.

Final Death: Any death from which resurrection is impossible.

Finder: An Oroboroi who received her Heart as a result of research and investigation; Finders are usually intellectuals and antiquers.

Furnace: The heat of a Dragon’s Heart, held in chest and reflecting the degree of her leadership potential.

Graft: Boney clasp that supernaturally enhances other objects.  Made by erasing a mortal.

Heart: A nine-chambered blood pumping muscle.  A Dragon’s weak point and most treasured possession.

Hydra: A multi-headed Oroboroi who’s neglect for the Code has rendered her a monster.

Inheritor: An Oroboroi who received her Heart as a gift; Inheritors are social titans.

Knight: A member of the Bloody Chalice conspiracy.

Lair: A Dragon or Den’s home.

Metamorphosis: The first manifestation of aspects, immediately after consuming the Heart.

Method: The means by which a Dragon came into possession of her Heart.

Method aspect:  Aspects seen most frequently in Dragons of a particular method.

Non-Method aspect:  Aspects not usually seen in Dragons of a particular method.

Oroboroi (or-ROB-or-roy):  Dragons

Oroborus (or-ROB-or-us):  The mythical self-consuming serpent.

Philosophy: An Oroboroi outlook and worldview.  Thought made reality.

Philosophy of Ash: An Embers Philosophy that believes society has a fundamental flaw that is causing its decay and inevitable destruction.  That flaw should be exposed and utilized if necessary.

Philosophy of Blood: An Embers Philosophy that believes treachery and broken vows are the source of the past’s suffering.  Crafted the Code of the Oroboroi after the Collapse to push forth the duty of honor.

Philosophy of Bone: An Embers Philosophy that believes the unrelenting hand of fate will strike regardless, and the best option is to pick up the pieces after tragedy falls.

Philosophy of Greed: A Saintly Devil Philosophy that believes Greed is the worst sin to indulge.  Takes measures to prevent the greed of others without recognizing their own covetous nature.

Philosophy of Lust: A Saintly Devil Philosophy that believes Lust is the worst sin to indulge.  Desensitizes the body to suppress urges.

Philosophy of Pride: A Saintly Devil Philosophy that believes Pride is the worst sin to indulge.  Works to prove others wrong, though without the modesty to admit a personal shortcoming.

Philosophy of Sloth: A Saintly Devil Philosophy that believes Sloth is the worst sin to indulge.  Drives others to act with the power of memory.

Philosophy of Sweat: An Embers Philosophy that believes pain is the taskmaster of life and any attempts to defer it, such as society, are doomed to fail.

Philosophy of Tears: An Embers Philosophy that believes emotion outweighs action when the chips fall.  Seek a society with the proper motive to thrive.

Philosophy of Wrath: A Saintly Devil Philosophy that believes Wrath is the worst sin to indulge.  Bottled anger explodes in a destructive rampage.

Red Pearl: A crystaline formation within an elderly Oroboroi brain.  Highly coveted.

Saintly Devil Schools: The group of schools practiced by the Scholars of the Five Evils, determined to exponge the wicked but doomed to backslide.

Sect:  An exclusive philosophy sub-group.

Shadow: The Ephemeral world.

Slayer: An Oroboroi who received her Heart through murder; Slayers are vicious and powerful.

Trickster: An Oroboroi who received her Heart through treachery or resources; Tricksters are noxious and toxic, and are not to be trusted.

True Form: The state of having all aspects manifest.

True Heart: The state of living with Heart in chest; a refusal to remove the Heart for immortality.

Twilight: The skin between Daylight and Shadow, where both Material and Ephemeral exist.  Home of Ghosts.

Underworld: Home of the true dead.

by the way it is look, i would say that we are very very close to finishing it.

a few things i noted while reading it

CJC:

This is Dragon: the Embers—the Storytelling game of Forgotten Glory.

i thought we settled on calling it a game of Divine Right and using Forgotten Glory as part of the Mood (along with Foot Steps toward extinction.

it's a minor issue but i just wanted to clarify it before we go any farther. 

CJC:

So why not breed for more numbers?  History has shown that such a method does not work well.  Heirs to power are spoiled by their entitlement, and usually eradicated in a coup.  Dragons have also given up their right to genetic heirs by removing their Hearts, so such a notion is no longer even possible.  A small sexual appetite coupled with an inability to produce draconic children means negative population growth and thus negative population; the point being no new Dragons are born and so no new hearts bolster the population.

i won't stay that Dragons are made infertile to each other by the ritual of the Heart but rather are already infertile to other Dragons regardless if they have the Heart in them or not. also, here's facing the 800 pound gorilla in the room, being a Dragon does make one's sexual appetite any higher or lower than it was as a human. it may differ from experiences of being a Dragon but not because you are one.


other than this, it looks really good, i'll get to work on the Dragon-Werewolf fluff and once that is done, we can start the Playtesting.

also, i forgot to put something on the Kindred-Dragon relationship. manly that Kindred can reproduce, Dragons can not.

Shock:

thought we settled on calling it a game of Divine Right and using Forgotten Glory as part of the Mood (along with Foot Steps toward extinction.

it's a minor issue but i just wanted to clarify it before we go any farther. 

Ah, didn't know that.  I'll change it in my file and then edit the post.

Shock:

i won't stay that Dragons are made infertile to each other by the ritual of the Heart but rather are already infertile to other Dragons regardless if they have the Heart in them or not. also, here's facing the 800 pound gorilla in the room, being a Dragon does make one's sexual appetite any higher or lower than it was as a human. it may differ from experiences of being a Dragon but not because you are one.

I was using it as a metaphor associated with the Heart removal.  A world leader has to give up what makes her human to survive the trials of her position, so certain earthly interests drop off.  If you feel it doesn't fit the nWoD or our Embers Dragons, we'll drop the following:  Lack of carnal appetite for heartless dragons and Fertility/Infertility attached to Heart's position.  Since dragons can't birth dragons anyway, it doesn't matter if they're active or not.

CJC:

All characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by CCP hf by virtue of their existence as a derivative work. 

Er... no. I don't believe so. Anything which is owned by WW is, well, owned by WW. But what we've designed, specifically, isn't copyrighted by them or any other company.

CJC:

Beijing is a trademark of the People’s Republic of China, all rights reserved.

Again, I don't think this is correct. You don't need to put this in.

Shock:

i won't stay that Dragons are made infertile to each other by the ritual of the Heart but rather are already infertile to other Dragons regardless if they have the Heart in them or not.

Hrm? I thought that we'd agreed that Dominion failed because of the whole Heart problem. Why are they infertile now, then?

Shock:

also, here's facing the 800 pound gorilla in the room, being a Dragon does make one's sexual appetite any higher or lower than it was as a human. it may differ from experiences of being a Dragon but not because you are one.

How is this an gorilla of any size?

...

I'll make sure to respond to the past page or two of stuff. I'm just rather busy right now, between schoolwork and getting ready for NaNoWriMo (or doing NaNo, now). I'll offer input on the Scholars and such, but besides that, you can't count on much help for the time being.

Gepetto887:

CJC:

All characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by CCP hf by virtue of their existence as a derivative work. 

Er... no. I don't believe so. Anything which is owned by WW is, well, owned by WW. But what we've designed, specifically, isn't copyrighted by them or any other company.

CJC:

Beijing is a trademark of the People’s Republic of China, all rights reserved.

Again, I don't think this is correct. You don't need to put this in.

Okay.  I'm always a little skittish about the legal thing, so I was just trying to cover everything (Templated the legal stuff from the front page of one of the core books).  I'll remove those two lines from my file and that post.

Gepetto887:

Shock:

also, here's facing the 800 pound gorilla in the room, being a Dragon does make one's sexual appetite any higher or lower than it was as a human. it may differ from experiences of being a Dragon but not because you are one.

How is this an gorilla of any size?

People get uncomfortable talking about sex, or the lack of it.  But... to keep the Dragonborn merit from being REALLY rare, we should ease up on the fertility thing a little bit (They can't have DRAGON children, but they can still have children).  Families are a great plot point for personal horror stories, after all.



EDIT:  @Gepetto: Since your last post, we discussed:
Philosophy Dice Pools (Decided to leave them be as a unique Dragon mechanic.  After rediscovering the subsequent philosophy penalties, the big dice pools seem almost necessary.

Knights Status 5 mechanics (Well, I combined the two proposed mechanics and posted it for review.  No responses as of yet)

Dragon Stereotypes (Shock did an excellent job on all of these)

Dragons that share their heart, and the children of Dragons (This is still going on, though in a different light at the moment)

Problems with Resources (We invented Resource points, threw them out, and then went back to the Hoard system)

Dragon/Vampire Crossovers (Shock presented the groundwork for Vampire/Dragon interactions, and Lostkith gave some counterpoints)

CJC:

I was using it as a metaphor associated with the Heart removal.  A world leader has to give up what makes her human to survive the trials of her position, so certain earthly interests drop off.  If you feel it doesn't fit the nWoD or our Embers Dragons, we'll drop the following:  Lack of carnal appetite for heartless dragons and Fertility/Infertility attached to Heart's position.  Since dragons can't birth dragons anyway, it doesn't matter if they're active or not.

ah, well, im getting at while some interests drop off, the core of love (and it's physical counterpart) pretty much remain the core of every creature (including Dragons).

also, as this a game about leaders, divine right, and power, i see it would fit perfectly for a Dragons have a trail of illegitimate Dragonborn (just as kings, emperors, and politicians have bastard offspring today) and would be an excellent tool for a ST to use.

Gepetto887:

Shock:

i won't stay that Dragons are made infertile to each other by the ritual of the Heart but rather are already infertile to other Dragons regardless if they have the Heart in them or not.

Hrm? I thought that we'd agreed that Dominion failed because of the whole Heart problem. Why are they infertile now, then?

well, where did the Hearts come from in the first place? my idea is the humans killed off the original Dragons, ate their Hearts, and became them. thus, all the Hearts came from one of the original Dragons and the new ones can not reproduce for some reason.

Gepetto887:

Shock:

also, here's facing the 800 pound gorilla in the room, being a Dragon does make one's sexual appetite any higher or lower than it was as a human. it may differ from experiences of being a Dragon but not because you are one.

How is this an gorilla of any size?

well, the first thing that popped into my head is that someone was going to see this thread from now on as "OMG!!? Dragon Buttsexxz!" and that's really something i wanted to prevent. but then again, we have a werewolf book so i kinda view this a unfounded fear on my part.

Shock:

well, where did the Hearts come from in the first place? my idea is the humans killed off the original Dragons, ate their Hearts, and became them. thus, all the Hearts came from one of the original Dragons and the new ones can not reproduce for some reason.

As I recall, the dragons started out being mortal, so to speak. If you killed a dragon, you killed it for good. The Heart was still a thing of power, however, because even in these times, consuming the Heart could make a mere human a dragon. It is even said that in those times, it wasn't only humans who could benefit from consuming the Heart, but other animals, too, and this may still be true, but if there has been anyone mad enough to feed his Heart to a rat or dog in order to find out, his tale is unknown.

In those days, there was Dominion, and it was held by the dragons. They could breed, even if they only rarely fertile, and they took a great time to mature. Humans could join their ranks, through one means or another, and there are many stories of those who proved themselves great enough to take a Heart. There were troubles, but not so terrible as to shatter Dominion.

Until, one day, Dominion ended, for reasons which are unclear to all dragons. The cause is this: A dragon discovered, or developed, a ritual which would allow her to remover her Heart, and yet still live. So long as her Heart remained undamaged, she would live. The ritual spread, and those who did not perform it quickly (to dragons) fell to those who did, and to other threats. Too late, however, the survivors learned that they were infertile, and it took long enough that they may not have even realized that it was the ritual which had done it to them.

Nowadays, a dragon which has not removed his Heart can become fertile, but it will take many decades, and another dragon who has not removed her Heart at all, and has been a dragon for a great many years.

In short, it is just about impossible. Not only is the likelihood of two dragons, one of each sex, not removing their Heart (and then surviving) for perhaps fifty years very very bad, but then to consider how unlikely it is that they will meet, and then actually mate, and at a time when the potential mother is actually capable of getting pregnant, well...

Maybe the odds would be better if just one dragon knew why they were infertile. But right now, the odds are as good as nil.