Can geist manifest as ghost?

Hey, no offense, plz! If i wish as ST that one of my NPC have partly visible geist - it will have. It haven't covered by rules - this was an answer. But we can make descision w/ my players that if it sounds cool - it can be.

glennhefley:

If you don't want to help the game be fun, expand ideas, make it worth the huge investment of time and money, (maintain value).. at least don't make it drool.

Fan entitlement-complex and a passive-aggressive attitude problem. What a charming combination.

It's easier to step down and apologizing when you accidentally stick a shoe in your mouth than trying to swallow the shoe whole and make it look like that what you intended to do all along.

A question was asked and Kordeth was helpful enough to not only answer it, but also address the tangents that spawned in a very elaborate manner, avoiding simple monosyllabic yes/no responses. Of course, he answered in respect of the RAW, but he ticked the golden rule checkbox on the way out and said you can do whatever you want in your own game, so it's not like he said "I wrote this and because I wrote this I say you cannot do this!"

Seriously, just be mature and polite and say your apologies. I for one thank the writers for passing by and clarifying stuff and hope that they're not deterred and pushed away by this kind of attitude. Working in the Tech Support/Customer Service field myself I know how easy is to develop loathe and become jaded to ungrateful customers :)

Now that that peg's been taken down... am I right in thinking that Geister can be seen with death sight? If so, is Grim Sight (etc.) going to work?

Crabbadon:

Now that that peg's been taken down... am I right in thinking that Geister can be seen with death sight? If so, is Grim Sight (etc.) going to work?

I don't think that Geister are visible with deathsight.  I think Geists should be a mystery to other players.  When they meet you, they can see that you died, and they will almost surely assume that you did so by making the Bargain.  However, you won't automatically recognize the look or personality of the Geist itself.  I would think it would be a good matter of conversation between SEs that have just met.. "So, you're Torn, right?  What is your Geist like?" "Well, oddly, she is Prey, not Torn.. but we were both killed by rabid dogs.  I think that's why she picked me." "Wow, your Geist is a girl?  That must be a bit nicer than mine.  Mine.. well, I don't really know what gender it is.  It rarely talks, and doesn't really look like anything." "Whoa.. what a trip that must be.  I can't tell if I'd rather the Bitten Woman in my head be silent, or whether I like having the companionship."

Cleverest of Things:

When they meet you, they can see that you died

Why is that?

Why are these "wounds" still there, what is making them visible to the sight of a Sin-Eater? It isn't flesh, and not your own soul, if the sin-eater can not see the Geist, then he certainly can't see a living soul inside the body.

so, where are these wounds showing up? Simply "signs of death"... in the shape of the wounds? ... seems a bit accurate.

glennhefley:

Simply "signs of death"... in the shape of the wounds? ... seems a bit accurate.

The sense I get is that S-Es have not only the energy around them but also some sign of their death that does not go away and cannot be covered up that only S-Es can perceive, not unlike the Exalted's clan symbol.

.. hmmm... I have heard this death marking thing several times in here, but I just got done trying to find it in the source, and I don't see it anywhere... I'm in section.. Symbiology area and the closest thing I can find is the Death Stains section... but that doesn't even come close... so perhaps I'm mixing Forum with Source here...

glennhefley:

Cleverest of Things:

When they meet you, they can see that you died

Why is that?

Why are these "wounds" still there, what is making them visible to the sight of a Sin-Eater? It isn't flesh, and not your own soul, if the sin-eater can not see the Geist, then he certainly can't see a living soul inside the body.

so, where are these wounds showing up? Simply "signs of death"... in the shape of the wounds? ... seems a bit accurate.

Many of the Authors have mentioned that Sin-Eaters generally recognize one another.  This might mean that they can see each other through Deathsight.  It explains what each Threshold looks like when viewed with Deathsight.  I would assume this means to ghosts AND Sin-Eaters who touched a Threshold.

Even without this power, they can use Clinical Precision on one another.  They can sense a cause of death by touch--and the fact that a sin-eater is a living mortal who has a Death to read through this power is a strong indication that hey are a Sin-Eater (As opposed to a Vampire or Zombie, who died but stayed dead). 

Of course, one of the bigger questions is whether or not those aspects of Deathsight are automatic, or have to be conciously activated. 

Of course, it COULD be an aspect of Ghost Sight.  They would see the ghost-human fusion.  Some people have suggested that you CAN see a Bound's Geist this way, or see some kind of overlap.  If they CAN see other Sin-Eaters through ghost sight, it might reveal the Geist that powers the SE, or it might show the SE himself as a dead soul inhabitting its own living body. 

Of course, this is mostly speculation, based on the fact that a few authors have said that Sin-Eaters can recognize one another, but not exactly how, when, or with what kind of effort.  I think Kordeth said that you can see Sin-Eaters naturally.  I rather dislike the idea of a Geist being visible outside of the body without Manifestation or shapeshifting into its Aspect.  I think of Geist and human as more thoroughly combined, at least from a visual/narrative standpoint.  While the Geist and human do not fuse perfectly (They can have separate trains of thought, and a few diverging morals), they fuse better than a possessed person.

I think it's left unspecific as a matter of flavour.
It allows free rein into the mystique of the Geist both to the Bound and to other S-Es he meets. All the other S-Es know of the Bound's Geist is its effect, fragments of it seen through the periphery of their Deathsight, and the visible form and nature is known only to the Bound himself.

And I still say that S-Es are so pervaded with deathly energy that it's instantly recognizable to other S-Es. I mean, they can identify the faint glow of death in a tiny Charm from across the room, they should be able to instantly feel the rush of deathly energy pouring out of someone not only tainted by death but inhabited by what is both an archetypal symbol of death and a powerful uber-ghost.

Cleverest of Things:

I rather dislike the idea of a Geist being visible outside of the body without Manifestation or shapeshifting into its Aspect.  I think of Geist and human as more thoroughly combined, at least from a visual/narrative standpoint. 

I didn't say they had a death, I said they were tainted, marked, inexorably influenced by death.
They can see it in objects, in others and in themselves.

How they see themselves? When they look in a mirror?
Why describe what they only look like to themselves as Deathsight? That's never going to come up in the story beyond character creation.
Why should they be unable to detect other Sin-Eaters, who reek of death?

There's nothing wrong with your view, but it is gainsaying a lot of ability for character Quale creation.
The mark that their brush with death leaves, their Geist's presence as felt by others... this allows for more interestingly illustrated characters.

glennhefley:

As I posted in another thread, I read the Darksight areas as how the Sin-Eaters "see" and see themselves, .. the glass they now see through Darkly... their sight is tampered with by the persception of death (their own death)... I don't read anything there that suggestst the Torn person sees the Forgotten with bloody holes in his skull... that makes no sense at all. 

No no, I don't think that the Deathsight listing under the Thresholds is how that Threshold views everyone else.  Rather, that is how any Sin-Eater sees a member of that given Threshold.  If he sees a Ghost or Sin-Eater that was Torn, he would see the violent wounds that claimed him.  If he turned his head and saw a Silent, he would see that ghost or person wither and diminish before their very eyes, etc.  The same probably goes for Mementos.

Cleverest of Things:

No no, I don't think that the Deathsight listing under the Thresholds is how that Threshold views everyone else. 

Well, if that it what is meant, by the Deathsight areas, then they are very poorly written.

it comes violently: everything looks normal for a moment and the comes a brief, blinding headache. It passes, leaving behind the thinnest film of blood over the Sin-Eater's eyes. And now, the dead appear, in all their bloody glory...

... this is describing how the Torn see things.. not how others see them.

So, if this is meant to describe how the Torn are seen by other Sin-Eaters, it is very poor writing... and from everything else I've read.. the writers of the book aren't that bad.

And no, it isn't boring at all... it is very cool in fact. I think what would be boring and a bit silly is everyone seeing the torn with half his head missing.. all the time... Sure, as a novelty it would be pretty cool for a while, but it dismisses completely the idea that the Torn is still living, that the Geist has the power to push back the energy of Death, or that a Sin-Eater is any better than a walking zombie with regeneration and two souls in him.