Changelings: What are they particularly good/bad at?

So, I am now the proud owner of all the C:tL books, but have never come anywhere close to reading them all cover-to-cover.  So I pose these questions to those who are more familiar with the books than I am:
What are Changelings really good at, and what things can't they do at all, or are they extremely poor at?
In particular, I'm referring to supernatural abilities (like Contracts, but other things too).  Feel free to compare them to other denizens of the World of Darkness, if that's useful, but lets leave mages out of it.  After all, a powerful enough mage can do nearly anything.

Changelings are incredibly flexible.  There's (esp. with all the books) almost no niche one can't fill with the right powers.

They aren't necessarily the best compared to other supernaturals at anything, but like mages they can easily make up for it be being generalists.

I think their biggest weakness is that they're bad at being sane.

One thing I've always found impressive about Changelings is the easy access to Merits.  Want to learn Kung Fu?  Whip up a Pledge and you got it.  Want money?  Make a quick deal with a friend and instant Resources.  Want to be dead sexy?  Sign on the dotted line!

Any Merit that doesn't deal with the supernatural world is fair game for a Pledge Boon.

fnord3125:

but lets leave mages out of it.  After all, a powerful enough mage can do nearly anything.

The same can be said for changelings; fae magic is flexible enough to cover pretty much every angle out there.   But both Awakened and Lost do have certain areas they excel in, and individuals can hardly "do nearly anything."

First, changelings tend to specialized.   Elementalists shine when in an area dominated by their element.  Darklings run into trouble in daylight.  Fairest rock when it comes to the social arena, while Ogres in the physical.   However, take them out of their specialty, and they often start to flounder.

Second, changeling powers tend to be weaker than other supernatural powers, dot for dot, but those powers are far cheaper, letting a fae buy more abilities and increased skills than another supernatural.   Pledges, dream magic, goblin contracts, goblin pledges, hedgecrafting, tale crafting... Fae have access to a wide spread of basic abilities that they can develop and specialize in.   But they will always retain a basic affinity for a wide swath of fairly decent abilities.

Nearly all of a changeling's powers, though, rely on Wyrd in some way.   Low Wyrd scores do weaken the effects of any direct power - this is why many people claim that changelings excel at finesse; they lack the power to do anything directly, so they need to come at things from different angles or to stack the deck in their favor.

Blunt Vorpal:

Nearly all of a changeling's powers, though, rely on Wyrd in some way.   Low Wyrd scores do weaken the effects of any direct power - this is why many people claim that changelings excel at finesse; they lack the power to do anything directly, so they need to come at things from different angles or to stack the deck in their favor.

I think that this specifically would be their niche.  Changelings are REALLY good at blind-siding people.  While Werewolves and Vampires can be brutally direct, the Changelings typical are powerful so long as their players are creative.  If a fire elemental lures someone into a forest fire, he will be able to knock the snot out of them without paying much/any glamour and getting a few dice bonuses to boot.  Unlike many other supernaturals, whose powers are typically taken at face value, the average Changeling gets the most bang for his buck by finding out cool things to do with his powers.  A clever Fairest can get someone killed with his Vainglory--stun the person with beauty while they are in traffic, make them unable to fight as you wait for your armed allies to arrive, seduce a bunch of gangbangers or other killers to come for your enemies, etc.  Sure, any super with those kinds of powers can do that.. but Changelings seem to rely on that creativity more.

Another thing that Changelings rock at is manipulating things.  Whether it be manipulating fate, manipulating dreams, manipulating the sworn word, or manipulating the very malleable nature of reality in their worlds, all Changelings have access to a large number of cool innate abilities that have no exp cost and very small Glamour costs.  These already exist as a default within all changelings--it just takes taking interest and getting some specialties.

Just remember one thing.  For the most part, other supers are VERY similar within their own race.  Sure, you can tell the difference between the vampire clans, but they aren't nearly so sharply distinct as the Seemings.  Picture a typical fantasy realm.  There are creatures so beautiful they melt your brain with their words, giants so strong and terrible they can rip off your arms and eat them, tiny men that are clever and crafty, etc.  Each of those is its own niche, and Freeholds have a LOT of bases covered when they work together.

Cleverest of Things:

Just remember one thing.  For the most part, other supers are VERY similar within their own race. 

  I'm going to disagree on this point - bloodlines and legacies certainly create wildly different critters from each other, and kiths definitely blur the line between Seemings.

Blunt Vorpal:

The same can be said for changelings; fae magic is flexible enough to cover pretty much every angle out there.   But both Awakened and Lost do have certain areas they excel in, and individuals can hardly "do nearly anything."

I'm not sure I agree.  Maybe I should point out that I'm mostly concerned with Contracts and powers listed in the books.  As I said, I haven't read any of them word-for-word, but recently I was statting up a True Fae, specfically an Actor manifestation of the title The Chirurgeon of Brass and Bone, and as I skimmed through Contracts, I noticed that there didn't seem to really be anything that would allow a changeling to mess with the forms and bodies of other living things.  Mirror will let you reshape your own, but I didn't see anything to change other people, plants, or animals, whereas a mage skilled in the Life arcanum would be pretty good at that kind of thing.  Obviously a changeling using a custom Contract of some kind (either build in-play, or out-of-game) could do some similar things as well, but it seems to be a "hole" in the Contracts in the books.  Are there other "holes" like this?

Oh, also, want to say: I really appreciate the feedback from everyone on this!  Being new to Changeling, I'm both trying to think of things for NPCs to excel at, and I also want to be able to give my players some advice on how to best take advantage of their new abilities.  Thanks again!

Blunt Vorpal:

Cleverest of Things:

Just remember one thing.  For the most part, other supers are VERY similar within their own race. 

  I'm going to disagree on this point - bloodlines and legacies certainly create wildly different critters from each other, and kiths definitely blur the line between Seemings.

I don't disagree with that.  Taking the Z-splat into account, you can very easily blur the lines of the X splats, and even the species (Like maybe Tremere bloodlines and legacies, or the vampiric counts of the changelings, etc).  Similarly, the Z-splats make for pretty unique characters.  However, especially without the Z-splats, its a different story.  Which has a bigger difference, a typical gangrel versus a typical daeva, or a typical ogre versus a typical fairest?  Which look and act more similar?  Sure, you can customize your character to be unique, and every gameline can blur the x-splat a little (A seductive venture and a seductive daeva, a big powerful ogre versus a big powerful beast, etc).. however, Changeling went out of its way to make the X splat more like an individual species, rather than a closely-related subfamily.  While the Legacy and Paths of Mages can differ from one another, any layman watching both species in activity would still clump them together as magic users.  However, a typical layman (Enchanted, obviously) watching an Elemental and a non-element flavoured Fairest or Ogre would probably not assume them to be related in almost any way, unless they've read enough books.  Faeries are often thought of as unique races, or even entirely without race and simply unique creatures.  Vampires, however, are often thought of as just Vampires, though the exact cause and nature of vampirism is often debated. 

Of course, luckily the NWoD gives more power to you in character creation.  It is typically up to a creative player to set his character apart from others.  You can do this with any race given.  It's up to where your traits are spent.  Even still, the Changelings are practically broken into Castes--while there are certainly weak and passive ogres, or physical/mental focused Fairest, these are often exceptions to the rule.  While each vampire is unique, each Changeling is usually thought of as a specific sort of faerie, even once it's discovered that isn't his seeming.  If you're massive and brutish, most people will assume Ogre because that's what Ogres are made distinct by.  Though you can tell what Clan a vampire belongs to by observing his behavior and his methods, you can usually tell (Or at least get a very close guesstimation) of a Changeling the moment you look at them, and especially after you see what they do and how they act.

Quick answer: Catches in the contracts. A changeling, when using the catches, wastes nearly no Glamour. Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, everyone always uses some of their own juice.

Cleverest of Things:

Which has a bigger difference, a typical gangrel versus a typical daeva, or a typical ogre versus a typical fairest?  Which look and act more similar?

I see a very large difference in the way a beastial undead and a succubus act.   When I say succubus, I mean the succubi of legend- night spirits that sleep with men and steal their life force from bodily fluids.   From what I've read, especially from the clan books, the Ventrue and Gangrel are the only "true" vampires that match the typical stories (including Dracula, True Blood, Twilight, etc); the Daeva, Nosferatu, and Mehket actually represent different kinds of life-stealers than you'd find in legends: succubi and incubi, zombies, shadow people.  There is absolutely a major difference between a seductive Ventrue and a seductive Daeva.

I'll concede the looks - all changelings get wildly varied appearances, while few vamps do (exception: Nosferatu, especially with Deviations of Flesh).   But as for the way they act?   As large of a difference as between an Ogre and Fairest.   Maybe more - the weaknesses and "blessings" (advantages from the clan books, such as Red Surrender) of the Kindred are arguably more prounounced than those of the Lost.

Cleverest of Things:

however, Changeling went out of its way to make the X splat more like an individual species, rather than a closely-related subfamily.

Wood commented that establishing the five clans as different races with enough similarities was one of his goals with the clan books.  

Cleverest of Things:

While the Legacy and Paths of Mages can differ from one another, any layman watching both species in activity would still clump them together as magic users.

  How is this any different from a English layman watching a Fairest and an Ogre (without a Mask) and concluding that they're obviously fae creatures?   They do certainly look the part of a number of legends, and do share similar mannerisms to the fae of legends, including a seemingly inability to break any promise.  

Also, "Magic user" is a very broad, encompassing term that can mean, well, anything supernatural.   Because, with just his Nimbus (assuming no paradox or disbelief), an Obrimos magus can appear as anything from an angel, to a pyrokinetic, to a high fantasy wizard, to a holy priest, to the reborn Zeus, etc.   That's a hell of a lot of variation, and that's just with a single Path only using a single aspect of the style.   I sincerely doubt that a layman would conclude that all five of the Obrimos variations I listed are part of the same "magic user" race.  If we start adding all the variations from all five Paths, we get even more wildly different results.  



I'm sorry, but I feel that you're ignoring major aspects of the different races, while ignoring the commonalities between the fae seemings, in your arguments.   I can understand your sentiment with Vampire- the early books often treated clan as unimportant, and its only recently have they been fleshed out.   But with the exceedingly flexible system of Mage that lets you effectively play just about any style of magical being you can imagine?  

Cleverest of Things:

Though you can tell what Clan a vampire belongs to by observing his behavior and his methods, you can usually tell (Or at least get a very close guesstimation) of a Changeling the moment you look at them, and especially after you see what they do and how they act.

You can only tell a Changeling Seeming (assuming no kiths) by look just because they're the only race of supernaturals with such wildly transformed bodies by default, and even that's up to debate.  But the difference in seeming mannerisms are hardly so different than the various Kindred clans.   Saying that there's a larger behavioral difference is entirely a matter of opinion.

fnord3125:

I noticed that there didn't seem to really be anything that would allow a changeling to mess with the forms and bodies of other living things.

Mixing Contracts or goblin aspects with pledges, for one.     But, the major reason you don't see such a power is because that particular ability is the one that the Gentry used on the Lost to change them into Changelings in the first place.  Only the most fallen, deranged changeling would use such a power, and certainly be exiled from any freehold for doing so.  

fnord3125:

but it seems to be a "hole" in the Contracts in the books.  Are there other "holes" like this?

A few minor ones here and there; for instance, some would like expanded Mask-illusion contracts.   But then, every game line has its holes - mage lacks Ice magics, vampire has no illusion or storm powers like in the legends, etc.   

A lot of changeling powers are also implied, rather than given actual mechanics.   For instance, changelings can actually make Hedgespun tokens.  However, the method for making them is very vague.  Likewise, most of the Autumn Court magic described in the fiction bits are never given any mechanics, but are assumed to work (kind of like Ordo Dracul alchemy).    Even with all the books, and the insane amount of abilities that a changeling has access to, there's still things that haven't entirely been covered.   

ArqArturo:

Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, everyone always uses some of their own juice.

This isn't really true, many Vampire disciplines require no cost to activate, same with mages casting in their ruling arcana.


To OP:  One thing that changelings are "bad" at is creating lasting effects through magic.  Most contracts last for a scene, and there are hardly any that can create an effect that lasts longer than one day.

OrbitSown:

This isn't really true, many Vampire disciplines require no cost to activate, same with mages casting in their ruling arcana.

A quick glance at the Werewolf core reveals that many level 1 gifts have no cost, some level 2's have no cost, and many level 2's cost a point of Willpower instead of Essence.

I actually consider it a bit of a disadvantage that, without catches, all Contract clauses require Glamour.  Of course, it's a LOT easier to get back Glamour than Essence.

Blunt Vorpal:

the Ventrue and Gangrel are the only "true" vampires that match the typical stories (including Dracula, True Blood, Twilight, etc); the Daeva, Nosferatu, and Mehket actually represent different kinds of life-stealers than you'd find in legends: succubi and incubi, zombies, shadow people.

I'm no vampire expert.  Quite the contrary: I'm rather tired of all the vampire stories and movies in popular media lately.  Consequently I only own the V:tR core and one of the early Bloodlines books, as I never had much interest in running it.  But still, I think you're incorrect.  Especially with the Nosferatu.  You have, I hope seen (or at least heard of?) the movie their name comes from, right?  And there is definitely a vampire stereotype of them being smooth and seductive, and it was my understand that the Daeva were meant to embody that stereotype, just as the Mekhet were meant to embody the stereotype of the vampire as as a creature of darkness, hiding in the shadows.  But again, I'm no scholar of vampire legends.

Blunt Vorpal:

A few minor ones here and there; for instance, some would like expanded Mask-illusion contracts.   But then, every game line has its holes - mage lacks Ice magics, vampire has no illusion or storm powers like in the legends, etc.   

A lot of changeling powers are also implied, rather than given actual mechanics.   For instance, changelings can actually make Hedgespun tokens.  However, the method for making them is very vague.  Likewise, most of the Autumn Court magic described in the fiction bits are never given any mechanics, but are assumed to work (kind of like Ordo Dracul alchemy).    Even with all the books, and the insane amount of abilities that a changeling has access to, there's still things that haven't entirely been covered.   

Ha!  You sound a little like you're defending Changelings.  :)  But I'm not attacking them.  I don't mind there are things they can't do, or can't do easily.  Quite the opposite.  I think it would be rather boring if they could do anything.  It is also true that I've spent even less time combing the Goblin Contracts than I have the normal ones, so I've probably missed a lot of interesting options there.

About these Autumn magics... The fiction is what I've read the least in any of the books.  I have mixed feelings about its overall quality, and I tend to focus on the bits that are more directly useful in my games.  But I am curious now.  Can you point me at any particular spots that describe these vague Autumn magics?

fnord3125:

I'm no vampire expert.  Quite the contrary: I'm rather tired of all the vampire stories and movies in popular media lately.  Consequently I only own the V:tR core and one of the early Bloodlines books, as I never had much interest in running it.  But still, I think you're incorrect.  Especially with the Nosferatu.  You have, I hope seen (or at least heard of?) the movie their name comes from, right?  And there is definitely a vampire stereotype of them being smooth and seductive, and it was my understand that the Daeva were meant to embody that stereotype, just as the Mekhet were meant to embody the stereotype of the vampire as as a creature of darkness, hiding in the shadows.  But again, I'm no scholar of vampire legends.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the movie- its basically a retelling of the Dracula story with a few twists, such as the sunlight weakness.  However, the vampire in that story is obviously a rotting corpse, associated with rats and plagues, killing each of his victims.   He definitely lacks the seductive charm of the movie Dracula or modern vampires; Orlok has more in common with intelegent zombies in the media than with modern vamps, who have little difference from a living person.

If the only difference you see between the clans is 'seductive,' 'shadowy,' 'scary,' etc... yeah, there's not a lot of differences then.  However, there is far more to the clans when you a good look closer.   The early books kind of treated the clans as unimportant, so clan themes were kind of ignored at first.    As the first game, the developers were a bit unsure which way to take the game, but over time the ideas have solidified and certainly evolved from those early books. 

Vampire, Mage, and Changeling are my three favorite games, and I do quite a bit of looking at various stories.   One of my favorite stories to point out is the Dresden Files.  The difference between Vampire Courts in that series is a good indicator of the differences between the clans in Requiem.

fnord3125:

Ha!  You sound a little like you're defending Changelings.  :) 

Sorry- I just get tired of people saying that something is an obvious hole that shouldn't exist.    But, yeah.   Fae magic can, in theory, do anything.   That's part of its strength.   Its weakness, though, is that it has a very hard time doing anything perminant (needs exceptional successes) or anything related to direct confrontations.   Fae magic excels in subtlty and manipulations, but lacks power and resilience. 

Blunt Vorpal:

If the only difference you see between the clans is 'seductive,' 'shadowy,' 'scary,' etc... yeah, there's not a lot of differences then.  However, there is far more to the clans when you a good look closer.   The early books kind of treated the clans as unimportant, so clan themes were kind of ignored at first.    As the first game, the developers were a bit unsure which way to take the game, but over time the ideas have solidified and certainly evolved from those early books. 

I wasn't the one arguing that there are only minor differences between the clans.  :)  I was just arguing that all the clans are based on a core stereotype of vampires myths, stories, and popular culture.

Blunt Vorpal:

Sorry- I just get tired of people saying that something is an obvious hole that shouldn't exist.

Like I said, I've got no problem with that.  If every nWoD "fatsplat" could work all the angles with their "magic powers" I would find it dull.