Changelings: What are they particularly good/bad at?

A changeling is strongest when he can be clever, when he can outwit his opponents and bend a situation to his will. A changeling is weakest when he cannot.

In a combat situation, a changeling by himself is no stronger than a human. He has many inherent tricks, but none of them allow for higher endurance, faster healing, harder punches, or anything else of that nature. Contracts and other items (like goblin fruits) let him heal injury or fight better, but unlike the undead or the werewolves these are learned magics not inherent aspects of the changeling's nature. Changelings can be deadly in combat, but on the whole no more so than a normal human.

Changelings are fantastic at running away. Inherently, they can open doorways into another world, albeit a potentially dangerous one. More importantly, they can use that maze to enter any doorway or reflecting surface in THIS world. Risky though that might be, one could use this magic to get to places others can't reach. Like say....your bedroom closet. In addition, while they are all learned qualities, any changeling can develop Contracts of Mirror and Smoke. This means that, among other things, a fae can hide his footprints and finger prints, mask smell, taste and sound, turn invisible, and shapeshift if he desires. This means they are inherently very very good at hiding.

Contracts tend to the specific. Their effects tend to be rather narrow compared to other powers. Many of them tend to ASSIST in attempting a particular task rather than outright cause it to happen. For instance, Vainglory 1 lets you be perceived as some type of authority figure. It doesn't make people do what you want, it just makes them believe your somehow in a higher position or greater authority on a thing than they are. In other words, helpful in certain situations, but of greatest use to one who can bluff like mad.

nothri:

In a combat situation, a changeling by himself is no stronger than a human. He has many inherent tricks, but none of them allow for higher endurance, faster healing, harder punches, or anything else of that nature.

Ogres punch harder, Wizened shoot better, Elementals are harder to kill.

Ophidimancer:

nothri:

In a combat situation, a changeling by himself is no stronger than a human. He has many inherent tricks, but none of them allow for higher endurance, faster healing, harder punches, or anything else of that nature.

Ogres punch harder, Wizened shoot better, Elementals are harder to kill.

I think he means that werewolves and vamps will pretty much kill you if they touch you.

I had a snake-Beast grapple specialist that wrestled a werewolf and kept him immobilized (though he wasn't in Gauru, a few more dice wouldn't have made a huge difference, and he would have been in trouble since people would have probably noticed it).

Changing that to a Summer Ogre with the right stats, and it would have been even more one sided.

A combat focused Changeling can easily hold their own.

I agree.

Zeev:

A combat focused Changeling can easily hold their own.

Well yes, but so can a combat focused human. The point isn't that changelings suck in a fight. The point is that a changeling walking down the street being unexpectedly ambushed by a gang with a loaded gun is going to react quite differently than a vampire or a werewolf. They have fewer instantly accessible advantages in these areas- they wound like people, they don't carry their "instant heal" magic around in their mystic battery the way some of the others do, and the number of health boxes they can heal is fewer than most supernatural creatures for most of their existence. And while we're at it, they don't take bashing from bullets, they can't "up" their stats with shapeshifting or blood pumping, and they can't sprout claws and inspire amnesia by turning into a towering manbeast. You can pick individual character blessings or Contracts that DO help in combat, but this is true of every game and not every character made out the door will have this stuff. What a changeling IS guaranteed to be able to do is get the hell out of dodge when need be. What a changeling is ALSO able to do puts them on par with many mages- they can PREPARE for the fight. A pledge can deck out a changeling with all kinds of neat tricks, not the least of which is resources for nasty equipment or 3 dots in a fighting style. Which is best summed up by one of my players announcing in his best Reeve's impersonation "I know Kung Fu!".

nothri:

The point is that a changeling walking down the street being unexpectedly ambushed by a gang with a loaded gun is going to react quite differently than a vampire or a werewolf.

And?  It isn't like those two groups would either (a) reaction the same way at each other or (b) all react the same regardless of character design.

What point are you really making with this?

nothri:

They have fewer instantly accessible advantages in these areas

Depends on how you make them.  And a lot of those advantages have some pretty large drawbacks if used recklessly.  Lost have a lot more subtle powers that let them get away with magical boosts without revealing themselves.

nothri:

What a changeling IS guaranteed to be able to do is get the hell out of dodge when need be.

Not really.  There's no special 'get the hell out of dodge' power that all the Lost get.

Zeev:

Not really.  There's no special 'get the hell out of dodge' power that all the Lost get.

If you make sure to jump into the Hedge through a doorway, archway, or mirror, in a place where your enemy won't see the gateway and follow.  Changelings have their "own" realm (Unlike the Shadow or Twilight, which can be reached by a few Races).

Changelings don't really have instant defenses or healing powers, unless you design them that way.  Vampires and Werewolves (TO say nothing of Prometheans and Sin-Eaters) have more innate damage resistance capabilities.  Like Mages, Changelings have to be designed specifically for the purpose of healing, tanking, and damage dealing.  The only people with reasonably wide access to healing and endurance are those that collect Goblin Fruits.  Mages, Hunters, and Changelings are more vulnerable to surprise attacks than the others--Vampires can heal themselves up, Uratha can shift if they survive the first shot and heal themselves up, Prometheans and Sin-Eaters might not even notice the wound, etc.  Mages even have Sheilding spells that a) every arcana has, and b) are typically cast at the beginning of the day.  Changelings have to rely on friends, ore the specifics of their character design.  Even the most intellectual and philosophical Vampires and Sin-Eaters can take a hit better than a standard Changeling. 

Of course.. that could be the very reason Goblin Fruit collectors and those that can make the precious fruits into potions and other odd things that help them last make a good profit at Goblin Markets.  Goblin Fruits can give you new kith blessings, drug like effects, and any sort of boost (or curse) you can think of.  You just have to have the fruit on you, and survive long enough to eat it.

Zeev:

What point are you really making with this?

Well, between me and Cleverest of Things you can see the point being said roughly three different ways, so I'll trust you to figure it out.

Cleverest of Things:

If you make sure to jump into the Hedge through a doorway, archway, or mirror, in a place where your enemy won't see the gateway and follow. 

And how are you going to get to a doorway when you're being chased before the enemy follows you?   The gateway does stay open for a few turns, after all; its not a foolproof method of escape and possibly chase right after you.   Plus, the reactive nature of the Hedge will likely respond poorly to a scared 'ling forced to such desperate measures, and good luck finding a way back out from an unknown entrance. 

I daresay running after someone into a thorny labryrinth, especially if you yourself aren't fae, will have its very own consequences.

nothri:

I daresay running after someone into a thorny labryrinth, especially if you yourself aren't fae, will have its very own consequences.

Which only increases the pursuer's desire to catch you and force answers out of you.  Or kill you.   Its a lose-lose situation, plus the changeling will probably take a Clarity hit for abandoning people in the Hedge to be picked up by the Gentry.

Fact remains:  Escape into the Hedge is still a lousy method of escape.

Cleverest of Things:

If you make sure to jump into the Hedge through a doorway, archway, or mirror, in a place where your enemy won't see the gateway and follow.

So... if you've already gotten away, you can get away even better.  And anyone can get into the Hedge.  You don't even need to buy magical powers to do it.  You just need to know how.

Cleverest of Things:

Changelings don't really have instant defenses or healing powers, unless you design them that way.

Great, but the powers you're talking about are rather easy to get around for anyone in the know.  The vampire and werewolf base template powers are nice, but they're not so good that there's the major difference you seem to be implying.  You'll note that vampires, werewolves and Prometheans might make awesome tanks, but they also fold quickly when attacked with the right things.  Not having as much upfront boost also means Changelings don't have as much upfront weakness to be taken advantage of.

And you're making way too much of the 'have to be designed!' thing.

The only thing my Beast used to out wrestle a werewolf was a 2-dot Token.  He didn't have any combat Contracts (like Stone 1, which is reflexive).  No relevant supernatural Merits (though FSes did help).  His Kith bonuses (Dual-Kithed) didn't apply to most combat situations.  Etc.

By 'designed' you need to put in a bit of effort.  You don't need to make a 100% X focused changeling to have one competent at it.

nothri:

so I'll trust you to figure it out.

The only thing I'm figuring out is that you seem interested in doing nothing spewing words that don't say anything.

Blunt Vorpal:

Fact remains:  Escape into the Hedge is still a lousy method of escape.

Only if you stay there!

One of my players, playing a Wizend, with one dot of Wyrd and the Fast Reflexes and Fresh Start Merits, opened a (car) door into the Hedge, jumped in, used his Wizened Dodge ability to avoid his pursuer and slipped back through the door in time to watch it close on his assailant's confused backside.

Changelings are all about subtlety and tricks, and an adroit Changeling does well in a story told to highlight those effects. In a Hedge-bound game (Rites of Spring), where the True Fae are toned down as a threat and the "Faerie world" friendlier to Changelings (much like a Gaiman novel), Changelings get along just fine.

This may run against the point of this thread, but in a straight Changeling game (no vamps, no werewolves, no mages--all supernatural effects are either fully-mortal mystics or pyschics or some form of fae), Changelings come out way ahead of mortal combatants. Period.