Stats for Set himself (oWoD)

I know its almost impossible to come up with stats for something like Set, but werewolf characters might encounter him in a game I am cooking up (just briefly, hopefully they run).

Does anyone have stats for Set himself?  Or have some good listing of powers that he might have?

No F'ng clue.

Set is an Antediluvian, he transcends game stats. Just have him be able to do anything he wants, the players shouldn't be able to take him on or stand a chance. As they say, if you give it stats it means that the players will kill it, especially with werewolves.

oh, I know what you mean... I was more looking for some of the more neater powers to throw at them.  Got any examples of some awesome higher level powers that might be good?

The last five published ranks of Serpentis are pretty interesting. Personally I kind of like the more subtle ones that would wreck the minds of anyone they get focused on, but transforming into an enormous serpent made of darkness has it's appeal too.

Personally... I'd mess with what their perceive to be reality during the encounter. Set can seem to be more than one thing at once, the shining noble hero who was beset by enemies out of Setite myth transposed over the twisted figure of darkness who has some strange connections with the egyptian underworld, the human aspect, the serpent aspects, the environment could shift around him, hot and heavy air, thick with a fetid humidity from a nile river afternoon, the acrid dryness and stinging heat of a saharan desert day, the moisture sucking crystalline frigidity of a desert night... Antidiluvians as plot devices are beings of such enormous and alien power, they'd tend to bend and warp the world around them, power just coming off them unnoticed in waves that would stagger any lesser being.

I'd definitely hit multiple aspects of Set though. The human hero who was betrayed, giving a tiny kernal of truth to the setite perspective. The ancient and evil corrupter that taints and subjugates everything it comes into contact with. The serpent aspects of the myths and symbolism. The darkness that represents the connection to the underworld and the oppositional stance towards Ra.

Have it speak ancient egyptian and have merely being present where it is result in derangements or flaws. I'd make them permanent but allow them to be bought off with XP but you may want to give the players some kind of resistance roll that determines the length of time they're affected. I'd definitely taint them something fierce with setite-ness though, which will probably pariah them were other werewolves are concerned, stinking of wyrm taint just by standing in front of the guy. Remaining in it's presence should require a courage roll just to stand there petrified rather than fleeing. Attacking him would probably be a courage roll at difficulty ten, requiring a number of successes to even try- repeated every round as the evidence piles up that their absolute best isn't affecting him at all. And if they do attack him for a couple rounds, maybe *then* turn him into a half mile long snake which seems to be partially composed of shifting darkness.

In other words... all specifics aside... make it big. Make it descriptive. Make it feel like an epic encounter, even if no actions are actually taken. Leave them something to remember it by which they'd need to overcome, scars to remind them that they have limits.

I actually have the same thing going with a werewolf/mage chronicle I am running. It is mostly about the Silent Striders-Set conflict, but I even included Augustus Giovanni, and Mekhet in a form similar to that presented in Gehenna as a somwhat ally to the troupe. I used the Vampire Player's Guide 2nd. ed. for the basis of many of the powers of the Antes. I personally thought the Antes became rediculously overpowered as time went on. Sure, their powers are incredible, but I never liked the idea of them "transcending" vampirism to become near omnipotent.
Anyway, I had thought Set would be more personally powerful than many other Antes. I used descriptions of him from the books as guidlines for his traits. I gave him strong physical and magical traits such as Potence, Celerity, and Thaumaturgy, as well as an obvious mastery of Serpentis and Presence. I also made him adept at Obtenebration, Necromancy, and Obfuscate. There were several other disciplines in the mix as well. I also incorporated many Mummy spells as rituals for Set. As for Mechanics, I long debated on what Blood Pool to assign. I was torn between 70, 75, and 100. I used the description of Methuselahs being "almost as powerful" as Antediluvians and went with 70 and 15bp per turn.
The stats for Japheth in the Giovanni Chronicles also gave me a good idea of what a vampire with tremendous amounts of time on his hands could become.

Just putting this out here guys. if an antediluvian can't be killed, why have several of them been killed? yes saulot was diablerized in his sleep but what of the cappadocian one? He get eaten by Augustus Giovanni. and Lasombra was diablerized by an assaimite. suposedly the ventrue antediluvian was killed by the brujah. and brujah was diablerized by his childe. personaly i think almost no charecter should have a chance aginst an antediluvian but they have died so why not stat them? think they'll die? give them 10 stamina and 10 fortitude. Any ancient would have both of these that high if they ever thought about combat so just saying they all have states that high isent a streatch. with 20 soak dice who has a chance? plus a least some would have Majesty so who could even attack them? just saying i see the text in the masquerade book saying they simply beat any charecter who fights them and think how? the original 13 are not all alive so how can that be?

Back on subject set 10 in all clan Disc. and 10 the physical Disc. and most likely 10 in all attributes and all relavent skills. hes more then 10,000 years old so thats not a streatch.

This is just my opinion.

Antidiluvians are going to see their most common incarnation in a game setting as storytelling devices. They aren't normal characters, they're forces that impact the setting and act as a catalyst for the players. They're supposed to represent giant unfathomable, ancient alien entities- all malevolence and conniving evil, any traces of anything empathetic having been lost long, long ago- absorbed by the horrible power that they personify.

The antis that have been killed according to the published material were all hit by either forces of similar power (in the case of them bumping off one another, or diablerie by other vampires who were barely any lower), or they were killed through their own mistakes. Inattention, hubris or just plain wrong moves. In other words, they weren't so much killed as they performed actions which allowed their deaths to be possible. Trusted the wrong underling, thought they had a plan to punch God in the face and take his lunch money or made themselves a target to something that is equally, earthshatteringly powerful.

If you give something specific stats- even high stats- it defines them in ways that they can't be when they're just represented by descriptions. It also makes it mathematically possible- however improbable- for your players to be able to get away with things that are not thematically appropriate. Never apply stats to something unless you want the players to be able to screw with it, 'cause when it botches a roll even though it had thirty dice in it's pool- you're stuck obeying the rules or pissing off your players. When it doesn't have stats, it's entirely your discretion how much of an impact they can have.

And with specific regard to Set having a ten in Serpentis, I'm not sure he'd actually have the exact discipline as written. Especially since half the powers are about taking on an aspect of Set- it'd be a bit redundant, paying blood or willpower to become himself. He's probably got something that follows the same themes and flavor, but which was bastardized by his followers in their pursuit of the being they regard as a God.

9black:

Just putting this out here guys. if an antediluvian can't be killed, why have several of them been killed?

That's all been under special circumstances - though not all of it has been explained satisfactorily, I'll admit. *G*

yes saulot was diablerized in his sleep

Evidence suggests that it was a Xanatos Gambit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit) that either backfired or went wrong or possibly went very, very right...

but what of the cappadocian one? He get eaten by Augustus Giovanni.

 
Someone he trusted, while he was obsessing over his obsession (naturally *G*) with death. Granted, he's got Auspex 10 and Augustus was only about 500 years as a vampire at that time, so this is one of those "unsatisfactory" ones.

and Lasombra was diablerized by an assaimite.

 
I admit this isn't my specialty, but I was under the impression that Lasombra was attacked "at home" by a metric ton of crazy-ass anarchs, led by one of his own childer whom he trusted and who betrayed him. Still, with Dominate and Obtenebration 10, you'd think he could be able to ride it out, even if he was in torpor.

suposedly the ventrue antediluvian was killed by the brujah.

 
Keyword here is supposedly. This might be Brujah propaganda ("Yeah, we took out The Man, 'cause that's how rebel we are!") or Ventrue propaganda ("Look at those Brujah, willing to kill the founders of our lines.")

and brujah was diablerized by his childe.

Whom he loved and had a blind spot for the size of a plothole in a Dan Brown novel.

We also have the Tzimisce eldest, but I think we all know that this was a Xanatos Gambit that worked just fine, and the Ravnos founder, who got taken out by the plot of the evil scriptwriters, aka. metaplot fiat (which can kill anyone).

personaly i think almost no charecter should have a chance aginst an antediluvian but they have died so why not stat them?

Because it's likely to just end up ridiculous. *G* "What happens if you nuke Ennoia?" "She comes back after 10 minutes, but now she's radioactive."

think they'll die? give them 10 stamina and 10 fortitude. Any ancient would have both of these that high if they ever thought about combat so just saying they all have states that high isent a streatch. with 20 soak dice who has a chance?

 
See, if noone has a chance, why bother statting them? And as any Exalted player will tell you, 20 dice does no guarantee a success. *G* Besides, depending on which edition you use, that's only 10 dice against aggravated and it's easy for a Get of Fenris of the right  Rank to get Strength 20.

plus a least some would have Majesty so who could even attack them?

 
Oh come now, breaking through Majesty will be easy for anyone going up against an Antedeluvian. *G*

just saying i see the text in the masquerade book saying they simply beat any charecter who fights them and think how? the original 13 are not all alive so how can that be?

 
Actually, no vampire is alive. :p Okay, me being silly...

In the core Masquerade book, it is assumed that the players play characters who are not powerful enough to take on an Antediluvian - thus, the PC can take them out. The deaths of Antediluvians have always been plot devices, happening due to extreme circumstances, as I said above.

Back on subject set 10 in all clan Disc. and 10 the physical Disc. and most likely 10 in all attributes and all relavent skills. hes more then 10,000 years old so thats not a streatch.

I'd say 10 in the Clan Disciplines, 9 in the physical Disciplines (good for a warrior god), tons of Setite Thaumaturgy, Dominate 9 (good for a king god), Animalism 9 (good for a desert god), a smattering of other Disciplines (no more than 6 in any clan-specific ones, with Protean being a possible difference), Str 10, Dex 9, Sta 10, Cha 10, Man 10, App 9, Per 9, Int 8, Wit 9, high combat, ruling and survival abilities and probably not too shabby at modern skills, since Sutekh seems to have been an adapting guy. Willpower 10, Road 10, Conviction 4 (shifted around a bit), Instincts 5, Courage 5.

Lasombra was not destroyed he merged with the abyss.  Part of his plan.  And I believe Capadocious escaped total destruction as well.  I forget the exact details on that but I remember that Augustus did not actually diablerize him.

Didn't Capadocious project from his body at the last minute or something in a grand plan to diablerize God?

Ungodly. Literally! I mean we are talking about a being who can consider himself to BE a GOD and (in the context of Werewolf and Mummy) may be very well within his rights to do so! If nothing else he has been around for millennia and should have built up quite a collection of abilities in that time. We know he was a warrior god of the wild places so very high Physical Attributes and probably Brawl Survival Melee etc. We also know he is a corrupter and tempter to high Social Attributes. And he should have a lot of damned knowledge about the occult too. I mean he CREATED the Bane Mummies for one.

As far as powers? Anything he wants? Obvious Serpentis will be high as will Obfuscate and Presence. In V:TES he (or a vampire claiming to be him) has all of those Disciplines PLUS Necromancy and lesser mastery of Potence and Celerity (appropriate for a warrior god). Some material hints that he should have Obtenebration and Protean as well due to some similarities with Serpentis. And of course he INVENTED Akhu (Setite Sorcery) reflected by some overlap with Necromancy. Animalism would also be useful for a god of wilderness. That should give you some inspiration for his powers.

From the level 10 powers back in second edition and high level powers of all those Disciplines he should be able to do stuff like curse someone to appear repulsive to others (making them want to attack that person) or imbue an object with LITERAL corruption that causes moral degeneration on its users. He could summon serpents made of darkness or walk in daylight or take various forms and aspects. He could disappear from people's memories with Obfuscate or use rituals to create mummy servitors or even curse his foes to vomit poisonous snakes from their bodies. He can control the emotions of an entire city or send dreams (or nightmares) to the entire world! And send vampires (and presumably werewolves) into frenzy.

Oh and lets not forget that Set IS the origin of the Silent Strider tribal curse too so he could presumably do the same to others.

If you consider Gehenna, yes, his soul escapes to the Abyss when Gratiano diablerized him. But before that, on the Lasombra Trilogy Abyss mystics command huge summons to the Abyss that appear to be the return of the Antediluvian. What it really happened was that the Abyss retained the emotions (rage, etc.) of what happened to Lasombra when the anarchs assaulted the Castel d'Ombro. Montano later eliminated such emotions in the Abyss claiming it "not being his sire". Anyway, Lasombra's soul did escape the diablerie, Gratiano confirms that, but to where it is uniknown.

-Saga

It's probably worth noting you'd never get that close to fight one. What with them being the hidden masters of the Jyhad.

In practical terms the only things which can rock and roll with a 3rd generation are archmages, incarna+ spirits, High ranking angels/earthbound/Lucifer, Methusula level vampires and  Kuei-jin, A 1st world superpower war machine and possibly mr T.
But you'll never get that close. Best case scenario you get to play shadow war with one of their lackeys.

Obfuscate 10 kthnxbai

No Cainite survives 10,000+ years by brawling with the local werewolf pack every sunday. My suggestion would be that if you use an Antideluvian in your game, don't even bother with stats or dice. It's like trying to assign traits to Lucifer (please don't tell me DtF already did this, I will scream...), God, or Macho-man Randy Savage. Build up to it and make it the most frightening scene you ever run. I wouldn't have the balls to do it personally, so I admire you for trying!