Can you learn a Bloodline Discipline without being a member of that Bloodline?

I don't claim to be an expert on Vampire: the Requiem, but I skimmed through the core book a bit and it didn't seem to actually clarify this. There seems to be strong insinuation that in order to get a Bloodline Discipline, you have to actually join that Bloodline, but I can't find a page number in any book which explicitly addresses this.

I'd really appreciate it if someone out there knows where (if there is any place) that clearly states whether you can learn a Bloodline Discipline from a Bloodline you're not a part of or not.

Thanks in advance to any who try to help.

:)

pg 259 bottom of the page "The fourth [Discipline] is either unique to the bloodline -- unable to be learned by Kindred who are not of the bloodline -- or is one of the "common" Disciplines practiced across clan lines.  Theban Sorcery, Cruac and the psuedo-Discipline of the Coiks of the Dragon may never be a bloodline's fourth discipline."

Hey, cool, man. Thanks.

But the Khaibit bloodline implies that you could learn Obtenebration, and something like that is implied (vaguely i admit) in  the Architects of Monolith, and some devotions of some bloodlines

lbeaumanior:

But the Khaibit bloodline implies that you could learn Obtenebration, and something like that is implied (vaguely i admit) in  the Architects of Monolith, and some devotions of some bloodlines

Both are in Bloodlines: the Hidden, which was one of the earliest books for Requiem. It may have simply been a matter of the writers still being new to the rules. But then, maybe these powers break the usual rule. It can happen (the OD book includes a Discipline that explicitly breaks the rule).

There's another one in the Invictus book:  The Annunaku's discipline, Tenure, can be learned if taught by an Annunaku.

lbeaumanior:

But the Khaibit bloodline implies that you could learn Obtenebration, and something like that is implied (vaguely i admit) in  the Architects of Monolith, and some devotions of some bloodlines

I usually chop that up to "Book in Development while rules were still being codified" it happens in Mage alot too (my go to game as far as WOD Knowledge goes) so its become common to me.

A Bloodline in the Ordo Dracul book, the Libitinarius, specifically state that their Bloodline Discipline, Mortualia, can be learned by non-Bloodline members and that they hold that information as secret as they possibly can so that they still are of some importance.

While the books states that a non-Bloodline member can't learn Bloodline specific with being a member, I'd rule that those Disciplines can be reached through Diablorie. Peherhaps also with some restrictions, like that the specific Discipline can't be brought higher by xp but only through Diablorie, that the Diablorist can taken on the Bloodline's weakness as well etc.

The diablerist may not take a dot in a bloodline’s unique Discipline unless he is a member of the bloodline that practices that Discipline (see p. 260)

From page 159 of VtR (red book).

I would hold firm on that rule. The only way I would ever even consider deviating from it is if the bloodline weakness came with the discipline. Meaning; you diablerize a Khaibit, take a dot of Obtenebration and gain an extreme fear of anything resembling sunlight. If it were so easy to go around acquiring all the bloodline disciplines then I find it hard to believe that some Highlander covenant (or small group with no real affiliation) hasn't sprung up with their goal set on taking the powers of every other bloodline, world domination, etc.

I guess limited Humanity is what's stopping them, although I'm sure they could eventually find some way around the whole degenerating into slobbering monsters thing.

For that case, then use the En bloodline from Ancient Bloodlines, it is just sick the power they get: they are daeva, get another discipline and can buy a set of abilities that makes diablere just plain better, the last ability lets them diablerize as usual and in addition gain a dot of a bloodline specific discipline. The only thing is that their abilities require great blood potency (BP 10 for the last ability) and they still lose humanity when diablerizing.

And if you think they have a specific bloodline weakness that compensates for this... forget it, just a greater penalty on untrained skill use, further more, losing all humanity removes the character from player control as usual, but the creature keeps being an intelligent being and able to use all of its abilities, it's just no longer under a player control. This bloodline is a munchkin dream, or perhaps made for an NPC.

I don't  agree with this "muchkin's dream" thing. By spending experience on Gifts of the Alu, the En will be lacking dots in skills and attributes. It's true that their easy way of diablerizing is pretty nifty but consider just how dangrous it is playing an En; it's too damn tempting to diablerize elders, and your humanity will drop.

TheFurryMekhet:

I don't  agree with this "muchkin's dream" thing. By spending experience on Gifts of the Alu, the En will be lacking dots in skills and attributes. It's true that their easy way of diablerizing is pretty nifty but consider just how dangrous it is playing an En; it's too damn tempting to diablerize elders, and your humanity will drop.

It's a classic theme of "power corrupts": You can have all the power in the world, but if you use it enough to actually become demi-god like, your humanity is gone and your almost an npc.

Well, not trying to make an argument here, but with small investment on Humanity (barely above 1, a 2 or 3) you can gain a lot, if you use diablerie on another you get (depending on your gifts of the alu, and BP): A dot of skill or discipline, no stains on your aura, and perhaps an extra dot of a bloodline unique discipline.

Of course every character at BP 10 it is supposed to be really strong, it just that this bloodline has an easier path, and potentially the advantages of the others without their drawbacks, personally i will only allow an En as low BP character (easy enough, most game that i've played don't get past BP 5 for the characters), an NPC, or changing their bloodline weakness to that of the Sta-Au: No way of regaining Humanity EVER.

And yes, i do think that you got the point in the "power corrupts" theme.

lbeaumanior:

Well, not trying to make an argument here, but with small investment on Humanity (barely above 1, a 2 or 3) you can gain a lot, if you use diablerie on another you get (depending on your gifts of the alu, and BP): A dot of skill or discipline, no stains on your aura, and perhaps an extra dot of a bloodline unique discipline.

Edit: getting my bloodlines crossed again!