Complain incessantly about Solar Hero Style in this thread

This thread is for posting reasonable discussions of how Solar Hero is suboptimally designed, for posting proposed fixes, and for posting incoherent and vitriolic rants about Holden's mother (or my mother) that tangentially refer to Solar Hero style.

THESIS:
Solar Hero is pretty good but it's showing some wear and tear over time.

Some minor tweaks implementing what we've learned about charm design over the course of the line might be advisable.

PROPOSAL:
Buff the form a little bit. Buff Fists of Iron a little bit. Make Shockwave Technique either Combo-Basic or Combo-OK.

Unfortunately for you, while it lacks the pretty frills of other styles solar hero is actually one of the most raw-ly powerful versatile unarmed styles in the game.   Its also beautifully short.  Really really an elegant piece of work.

People often mistake a lack of frills for a lack of power, solar hero lack frills what it has in spades is power. (Hell next to hungry ghost I'd say its just about the most dangerous style out there, arguably more dangerous than hungry ghost but lacking in the "cool nifty effects.") The thing is it is also one of the only really well designed Hero Styles in the game and gets a bad rap for being what it is supposed to be and not... say... VBoS.

Personally, and this is just in my humble experience, making Sheckwave Technique Combo-basic is enough.

Sojko:

Personally, and this is just in my humble experience, making Sheckwave Technique Combo-basic is enough.

I actually would agree that that would probably be enough to make me cease complaining forever.

Making Fists of Iron Technique a scene-length power-up is a decent enough quickfix for now. Being a scene-length power-up also means that Charms like Pounding Hammer of Devastation and Adamantine Fists of Battle can be designed as upgrade Charms to it instead of separate power-ups.

I've heard someone complain that they can't get enough successes on Solar Hero attack rolls to make the Form's reflexive effect worth it. How true is that?

Shockwave Technique should not compete with two other Charms. It should upgrade Heaven Thunder Hammer and/or Crashing Wave Throw, or be moved aside as an expansion upgrade, with some other effect serving as the capstone.

Heaven Thunder Hammer's knockback effect should be a flat and automatic amount rather than dependent on raw damage.

If Hammer on Iron Technique and Heaven Thunder Hammer are so chummy (and HoIT really can't be used to make any sort of grappling attack), perhaps one should follow the other, and Crashing Wave Throw can hook to the Form or another grappling Charm. That way, you can focus on boxing or wrestling as you please, at least for a while.

Inugami:

Making Fists of Iron Technique a scene-length power-up is a decent enough quickfix for now.

A proposal: perhaps, if you have the Form up, you can activate FoIT as a non-charm action.

Kukla:

Inugami:

Making Fists of Iron Technique a scene-length power-up is a decent enough quickfix for now.

A proposal: perhaps, if you have the Form up, you can activate FoIT as a non-charm action.

Yeah, I'd had that idea once -- though I was entertaining it while making FoIT more powerful. The idea works fine with idea of extending the duration but otherwise leaving it as-is.


Wait. I just double-checked and realized that I'd been "creatively misremembering" something. This Charm, as written is SUPPLEMENTAL? I've been thinking it was reflexive!


How about this?

FISTS OF IRON TECHNIQUE
2m
Reflexive, One Scene
Combo-OK
Martial Arts 2, Essence 2 -- No Prior Charms

All unarmed attacks (punching, kicking, clinching, use of improvised weapons) gain +1 Accuracy and +2 to Base Damage, and may deal bashing or lethal damage as you please. Your character may make unarmed parries against lethal close-range attacks without a stunt.

Expansion Charms may upgrade this Charm, increasing the bonuses to damage, accuracy or perhaps even defense.

Here's how I fixed it! Be warned, this was also an attempt to put it at a power level closer to normal solar combat charms, as well as making it less reliant on form weapons (based off of the quote from the Form, " It was forged in the dawning of the world so that the Lawgivers could face the greatest monsters with nothing save their hands and skill and be undaunted by them.")

No, that's way too powerful for an entry level charm. Making it Reflexive and action-long like One Weapon 2 blows is the maximum I'd allow.

Inugami:

FISTS OF IRON TECHNIQUE
2m
Reflexive, One Scene
Combo-OK
Martial Arts 2, Essence 2 -- No Prior Charms

All unarmed attacks (punching, kicking, clinching, use of improvised weapons) gain +1 Accuracy and +2 to Base Damage, and may deal bashing or lethal damage as you please. Your character may make unarmed parries against lethal close-range attacks without a stunt.

Expansion Charms may upgrade this Charm, increasing the bonuses to damage, accuracy or perhaps even defense

Limited Reagent:

Heaven Thunder Hammer: Added a minimum distance so it's still useful when dealing no damage.

You do know that the knockback depends on the raw pre-saok damage, right ? How do you even do to make 0 raw damage ? Negative strength ?

Limited Reagent:

Sojko:

No, that's way too powerful for an entry level charm. Making it Reflexive and action-long like One Weapon 2 blows is the maximum I'd allow.

Eh, even though Lunars get it as an entry level Charm, no prereqs, about the same minimums? Remember, it only works on natural attacks, no form weapons allowed. With form weapons, it's marginally better than the original, but only at higher essence levels.

1) If you had taken the time to use the "replied on" feature, you'd have noticed that I wasn't talking to you, but criticizing the scenelong version.
2) Your version is an action-long reflexive, what are you complaing about ? I'm saying I agree with you there, if you actually pay attention to what's written instead of making assumptions.

Kukla, I went to visit your mother the other day, and I could not believe how she treated me. I was all "Hey, Mrs. Kukla, is Kukla home? I want to talk to him about SHS"  And she was all "Oh sure, I'll go upstairs and get him, but wouldn't you like some tasty lemonade first?"  Myself being thirsty from the long walk from where I live to wherever it is you live, I naturally accepted, and while it tasted kind of funny, I drank it anyway to be polite.  Then my memories went all hazy for a while, and when I recovered, I was chained to a bed in your basement and your mother was doing unspeakable things to me while Holden's mother watched. For shame! Is this how you were raised to treat houseguests, or is this an example of a tragic figure, her heart broken by the fact that SHS killed her husband and drove her son insane, and now she's desperately trying to reach out in the only way she can?  I don't know, but really, you need to get her some help, or I'm going to file charges.

Also, I want a non-drugged glass of lemonade.

Lafing Cat:

Kukla, I went to visit your mother the other day, and I could not believe how she treated me. I was all "Hey, Mrs. Kukla, is Kukla home? I want to talk to him about SHS"  And she was all "Oh sure, I'll go upstairs and get him, but wouldn't you like some tasty lemonade first?"  Myself being thirsty from the long walk from where I live to wherever it is you live, I naturally accepted, and while it tasted kind of funny, I drank it anyway to be polite.  Then my memories went all hazy for a while, and when I recovered, I was chained to a bed in your basement and your mother was doing unspeakable things to me while Holden's mother watched. For shame! Is this how you were raised to treat houseguests, or is this an example of a tragic figure, her heart broken by the fact that SHS killed her husband and drove her son insane, and now she's desperately trying to reach out in the only way she can?  I don't know, but really, you need to get her some help, or I'm going to file charges.

Look, here's five dollars and a baby-wipe. Go clean up and buy yourself some lemonade.