Complain incessantly about Solar Hero Style in this thread

Plague of Hats:

Fists of Iron Technique

I still say that this is way too much for a 1st tier celestial MA charm that anyone can take. Scenelong buffs are something pretty powerful, and that's a very efficient charm. Comapred to IMAM that give you +1 Accuracy for 2m, this one does the same thing, except it doesn't require a charm activation or count toward the maximum, increases damage by 2, and give the ability to inflict lethal, just for 1 more commited mote. It is widely better than 1W2B which is a solar charm, making FoIT a reflexive action long mean it's already a pretty good charm. And given the option to make it scenlong when putting up the form, you never regret having it.

Plague of Hats:

Sledgehammer Fist Punch

So it does the same thing as before, except it can do something against non inanimate targets. Good idea, even if that's not nescessary.

Plague of Hats:

Heaven Thunder Hammer

So it does the same thing as before, except that you codify which objects break and whic objects stop the victim. It's a good idea, but there is no need to explicitly state that the object suffer no harm, just say it is not destroyed. If the GM thinks that damage is appropriate he can add it, and inflicting 50 damages to someone by throwing him into a wall with 4B soak, but not see the lightest damage on the wall is pretty silly.

Plague of Hats:

Ox-Stunning Blow

So it is now weaker, and often more expensive for the same effect. Not sure this charm almost on one use regularly needed to be nerfed.

Plague of Hats:

Crashing Wave Throw

You start by halving the normal distance, which isn't such a bad idea given that 50B piercing is a little bit much for a CMA charm. Someone going all out on Strength (especially a Lunar) can do even more damage than before with the new version, ouch. Also you replaced "horizontally" with "backward" for now visible reason, limiting the versatility. I really don't feel like that is a good idea.

Plague of Hats:

Inevitable Victory Meditation

Unless I missed something, this is a very weak charm and bad design. The only use I can see is to go all out on the activation, and then attack someone without excellency or any serious boost, and when the opponent decides to rely on DV you unleash this charm after step 2, leaving no chance for a perfect parry or dodge. That kind of "surprise your dead" efect that spits in the face of transparancy is a bad design space for general charms. But apart from that you replace your attacking attribute by Wits (which is usually lower), and can't use either your specialty or your weapons accuracy, meaning that even the Essence additional success are not enough to make this worth using.

Plague of Hats:

  Supremacy of War Method

I had the same questions, but you calrified the charm so I now see how it works. Since there is almost no chance of the opponent's throwing less than Essence dices at you (he has to be a lower Essence than you, and either incompetent or under serious penalties), it feels unnescesarily complicated. Given that it's mostly obsolete when you have IMAM on, it's not overpowered (and since this charm isn't easy to use at full power, it's not useless either).

Plague of Hats:

Ascendant Battle Visage

This is an extremely powerful charm, adding Essence success to all your attacks that can stack with your other charms makes you pretty dangerous, and it is also very versatile. If you agree to go berserk it's also scene-long. I guess the cost and drawbacks balances it.

Plague of Hats:

Horizon-Hurling Tactic

Now you can't combo it with CWT for 35.000 damage ! What have you done ! More seriously, I don't see the need to make an upgrade charm that turn the prerequisite into something completely different.

Overall, way too much permanent upgrade, that's supposed to be an infernal shtick, that's how the Primordials work. Making as many charms as you can as permanent upgrade is not a good design philosophy for the Solar Hero Style. A few here and there are a good idea (like Shockwave Technique, that is an upgrade of HTH in the original version), but some feel completely tacked on for no reason, especially when they replace the entire mechanics to do something different.

Sojko:

Then you're not very good at maths.

Ouch, that stung. Well, at least I can take comfort that you're not very good at reading comprehension.

I said multiple times that it's limited to the health levels the enemy actually has. Extras have 3 health levels. Ergo, 3 damage dice.

What a game breaker!

Jericus Rex:

I said multiple times that it's limited to the health levels the enemy actually has.

That's not in the charm text. I can read perfectly what's actually written.

Sojko:

Jericus Rex:

I said multiple times that it's limited to the health levels the enemy actually has.

That's not in the charm text. I can read perfectly what's actually written.

You know where it's also not written? On the depth 2, Combo-OK CMA charm I based it on.

You'll have to be more specific if you want me to understand what you are saying.

Fists of Iron Technique:

Sojko:

Comapred to IMAM

Fists of Iron Technique does not increase your defensive capabilities significantly and only applies to a specific category of attacks.

Sojko:

It is widely better than 1W2B

One Weapon, Two Blows is not a very good or interesting Charm, even by Celestial martial arts standards.

Heaven Thunder Hammer:

Sojko:

So it does the same thing as before, except that you codify which objects break and whic objects stop the victim. It's a good idea, but there is no need to explicitly state that the object suffer no harm, just say it is not destroyed. If the GM thinks that damage is appropriate he can add it, and inflicting 50 damages to someone by throwing him into a wall with 4B soak, but not see the lightest damage on the wall is pretty silly.

If a Storyteller wants to apply cosmetic damage to an obstacle, that's more than fine. But this Charm is a rule, like all Charms, and it should be unambiguous what it does mechanically.

Ox-Stunning Blow:

Sojko:

So it is now weaker, and often more expensive for the same effect. Not sure this charm almost on one use regularly needed to be nerfed.

It is not significantly weaker unless you have low Strength. It may be a mote or two too expensive. It otherwise produces largely the same effect unless you had high Strength and were going whole hog with the mote expenditure.

Crashing Wave Throw:

Sojko:

Also you replaced "horizontally" with "backward" for now visible reason, limiting the versatility. I really don't feel like that is a good idea.

I don't see what "visible reason" there is or any significant difference between "throwing someone back" and "throwing someone horizontally" in a game without facing.

Inevitable Victory Meditation:

Sojko:

Unless I missed something, this is a very weak charm and bad design. The only use I can see is to go all out on the activation, and then attack someone without excellency or any serious boost, and when the opponent decides to rely on DV you unleash this charm after step 2, leaving no chance for a perfect parry or dodge. That kind of "surprise your dead" efect that spits in the face of transparancy is a bad design space for general charms.

The character is either enhancing an attack with some kind of Charm, which merits careful consideration on the part of the defender, or he is not and the use of this Charm is going to produce a moderate amount of damage. Unless the Solar is pounding one someone with shit DV, in which case there's hardly a reason to make use of this Charm. I don't think a difference of perhaps 10 successes at most is going to be that significant on their own, and if not on their own the target gets what they deserve for thinking "Oh, it's just a Combo of Doom without an Excellency."

Sojko:

But apart from that you replace your attacking attribute by Wits (which is usually lower), and can't use either your specialty or your weapons accuracy, meaning that even the Essence additional success are not enough to make this worth using.

Unless you've got some crazy special artifact weapon, I don't think the difference is going to be that great. If your Wits are significantly lower than your Dexterity...eh. Raise your Wits.

Supremacy of War Method:

Sojko:

Since there is almost no chance of the opponent's throwing less than Essence dices at you (he has to be a lower Essence than you, and either incompetent or under serious penalties), it feels unnescesarily complicated.

What in the world are you talking about?

Horizon-Hurling Tactic:

Sojko:

More seriously, I don't see the need to make an upgrade charm that turn the prerequisite into something completely different.

I am enamored with upgrade technology of very similar Charms that eliminates the need to rebuild Combos. Horizon-Hurling Tactic is Crashing Wave Throw writ large.

Sojko:

Overall, way too much permanent upgrade, that's supposed to be an infernal shtick, that's how the Primordials work. Making as many charms as you can as permanent upgrade is not a good design philosophy for the Solar Hero Style. A few here and there are a good idea (like Shockwave Technique, that is an upgrade of HTH in the original version), but some feel completely tacked on for no reason, especially when they replace the entire mechanics to do something different.

I disagree strongly. The Solar Charms are older and creakier. They remain great, but their structure is not some looming imperative. As has been discussed many times, the basic ideas behind things like Green Sun Nimbus Flare and its evolution are sound outlets for growth for all the Exalted. The "Infernal schtick" involving Permanent Charms is that of transformative monster-itis, not Permanent Charms in general. They are the latest and greatest application of design theory for Charms which other Charm sets should benefit from where possible. Incidentally, the project that this comes from is based entirely on collapsing similar effects into each other for the purposes of Charm and Combo dynamism, so it's not entirely a fair argument to have.

Sojko:

infernal shtick

I agree that some of PoHs charms feels a little tacked on, but what you say here isn't necesairly  the case. Holden mentioned in thread, that atleast in his opinion, Permanant upgrade charms are just a better design method that they didnt realise the full potential for until late in the game line. I'd find the quote, but I think the ether has eaten it, givent ha it was said shortly after the infernal release. I do have it saved on my comp somwhere, but it will take time to find it.

Azurelight:

some of PoHs charms feels a little tacked on

Would you expand on that?

Plague of Hats:

Azurelight:

some of PoHs charms feels a little tacked on

Would you expand on that?

I would, when I have a bit more time to evaluate that stand point. I have just given it all a quick glance, and I may change my mind.

The afformentioned quote:

Odd Man Out:

Oh, I completely understand why it happened and am in full support of the path taken. It's just a part of my brain keeps screaming out for more toys. With any luck we'll get the Cut Charms and a bit more as a .pdf and maybe some more in assorted books.

Out of curiousity, is there anything that should stop Solar/Lunar Charms from following the path of permanent upgrades to lower powered charms?

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Holden:

   

In my opinion? Nope. It's just good design, I wish we'd realized how useful it is back in the corebook.

The one that Jumped out at me initially was the merger of Dragon Coil and Iron talon (I think it was?9. This was motly becaise , when   Holden was asked why that wasnt alredy the case, he said that sicne the charms did diffrent things, they should not be "merged#. Now that reply does seem a bit odd to me, So i think ill retract my earlier statment.

Plague of Hats:

If a Storyteller wants to apply cosmetic damage to an obstacle, that's more than fine.

Given that your charm text say the opposite, not really. If it just said "isn't destroyed", that would leave him the latitude to do what he feels nescessary without contradicting the charm.

Plague of Hats:

Ox-Stunning Blow is not significantly weaker unless you have low Strength. It may be a mote or two too expensive.

Not true, not only did you make it explicit that it doesn't inflict any damage (which is most likely a good thing, as that was a writing mistake, and not a feature) but the cap for base damage is now Strength instead of twice that. It is also more costly for anyone without Str 5 (so most people), but it is always weaker.

Plague of Hats:

I don't see what "visible reason" there is or any significant difference between "throwing someone back" and "throwing someone horizontally" in a game without facing.

Then don't change what don't need to be, if you have no reason to. There is no mechanical Front and Back, but peoples still have a back, and if you can only throw in that direction, it is perfectly valid to think that you can't chose the direction. Get back to the old description if you don't want to change what it does.

Plague of Hats:

Inevitable Victory Meditation

So you are saying : "this charm is so weak and useless that even if you sucker punch someone, it won't be too bad !", which only prove that it is a bad charm when used normally, and doesn't adress the problem. Sucker punching and killing combat transparancy is bad design space.

Plague of Hats:

Unless you've got some crazy special artifact weapon, I don't think the difference is going to be that great. If your Wits are significantly lower than your Dexterity...eh. Raise your Wits.

You don't need much of a weapon, and getting Wits to 5 is a very serious investment, especially since the player didn't know he should do that since character generation. An Orichalcum weapon can easily get you 4/5 accuracy, and even mundane weapon can get up to 4 accuracy. You are losing 7 dices here, and if you add a Wits at only 4 (which is already pretty high), that's another 2 dices lost (thanks to the lower cap on excellency), and since it's harder to stunt (if at all possible) you also lose another dice. That's about what Essence 5 gives you. So you are spending a willpower (and 2m) to get a slight boost if your Wits is very high, and your weapon not so accurate (and your Essence high). That's useless to the vast majority of users. You have limited yourself to say "this charm isn't as useless if you put in some efforts, or you don't have good equipment", which isn't a very strong argument. This charm must be changed.

Plague of Hats:

What in the world are you talking about?

If you don't get what I am saying, it's a good bet that i didn't understand what the charm does, so you should be more explicit. Don't you add dices to your pool based on how many dices the opponent threw at you ?

Plague of Hats:

The "Infernal schtick" involving Permanent Charms is that of transformative monster-itis, not Permanent Charms in general.

Holden has stated that the permanent charm technology is characteristic of the Yozis. SOlar can have permanent charm, and upgrades, but that shouldn't be most of what they get, and shoved everywhere.

Azurelight:

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I totally agree with you there.

Plague of Hats:

Azurelight:

some of PoHs charms feels a little tacked on

Would you expand on that?

Iron Talon (same reason as Azurelight), Knock-Out Blow and Horizon Hurling Tactic. Those last two straight out replace the entire mechanic of the charm by something else, that does something different.

Sojko:

Azurelight:

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I totally agree with you there.

Final edite: Cut most out, as it was redundant and not productive.. But what, exactly, do you mean by this?

Plague of Hats:

Unarmed Martial Arts attacks gain +1 Accuracy and +2 Damage and may be lethal or bashing. Martial artist may parry lethal and ranged attacks without a stunt.

Not worth three motes for +1 +2 (other benifits are negligable because in all likelyhood the character can a) stunt and b) is wielding some kind of MA weapon) I'd bump it down to 2 and make it stricktly reflexive step 1 (cut the parry lethal out or leave it in I think its largely supurflous)

Plague of Hats:

Sledgehammer Fist Punch
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Fists of Iron Technique

Enhances an unarmed Martial Arts attack, adding (Essence) raw damage in Step 7 of resolution. If the attack is against an inanimate object instead of adding damage it doubles the raw damage of the attack in Step 7 of resolution.

Seems appropriate, its comperable to Force of The Mountain.

Plague of Hats:

Solar Hero Form
Cost: 5m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2; Type: Simple
Keywords: Form-type, Obvious
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Dragon Coil Technique, Sledgehammer Fist Punch

As published, plus "On the tick this Charm is activated she may also activate Fists of Iron Technique without a Combo."

Not crazy about a 9m form charm.  Perhaps you cut the -without combo- thing and make activating Fists of Iron 0m-1m reflexive (but otherwise unchanged) while form is active.  Seems somewhat fitting.

 I don't see how this form needs to be obvious.  Sure you're hella strong but...

Plague of Hats:

Heaven Thunder Hammer
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Knockback
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Solar Hero Form

Enhances unarmed Martial Arts attack, ensuring the target suffers knockback equal to (raw damage of attack) yards. If the target flies back into another character, they stop but the other character must roll to resist Knockdown (Exalted, p. 152). If the target flying back strikes an inanimate object with 3B soak or less, the object is immediately Damaged and the target flies on. If the target flies back into an object with greater bashing soak, the obstacle suffers no harm but the knocked back target stops and suffers dice of damage equal to the yards untraveled due to the obstacle. This damage is usually bashing unless the obstacle is particularly dangerous, like a spiked wall.

Describe the mechanic by which this person-person colision can be simulated.  Is it a called shot, a flurried punch/thrown... what?
I would define whether the object is damaged by the same metric I used to termine whether the character was (ie they both suffer remaining yards of damage, objects have soak=hardness which simulates, already the resiliency of the inanimate I Think your changes to this charm are trying to express. 

Plague of Hats:

Ox-Stunning Blow
Cost: 5m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Crippling
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Solar Hero Form

Enhances unarmed Martial Arts attack, replacing the usual damage. Raw damage is equal to 0 + Strength + attack roll’s extra successes regardless of the weapon used, which is soaked as bashing but ignores any soak that does not come from Charms. Rather than levels of damage each success on the damage roll inflicts a -1 internal penalty on the target’s actions until their DV refreshes three times.

Ignores soak that does not come from charms? What? Why?
To be frank I dont really understand this.  You've taken a charm that was already mostly only good against behemoths and made it so its definately only good against behemoths.  Perhaps the damage ignores Armored soak and hardness (which would make sense as the force is concussive) but it is appropriate that natural soak should endure.  For 5m that is also a very short duration crippling effect.  Its not even penalizing their DV if I'm reading this right (as its penalizing their actions) if you intended it to penalize dice pools and static values say so because otherwise ingrates like me will mis understand.  This should probably be cheaper.  Perhaps, however I am missing something.

Plague of Hats:

Crashing Wave Throw
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Knockback
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Solar Hero Form

Enhances an attempt to end a clinch by throwing a target. Target flies (Strength x Martial Arts) yards back or half that up instead of the usual (Strength) yards away. The target is also subject to the same obstacle-based effects as if they were the target of an attack enhanced with Heaven Thunder Hammer.

 This charm actually synrgizes really nastily with infernal moster form or with lunar strength enhancers, but not quite as nicely with other charms of this style, esp since Heavan thunder hammer remains a built in part of it.  Perhaps this charm could upgrat HTH allowing it to work on clinches, in which case... This would require making HTH Reflexive Step 1 but thats not that problematic as it will make it so it doesnt autimatically break your own flurries.   Finally if I Choose to throw the target at the floor does this still mean the'yre getting knockdown+ 25B. 

Plague of Hats:

Shockwave Technique
Cost: —(5m); Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Counterattack, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Hammer on Iron Technique, Heaven Thunder Hammer, Ox-Stunning Blow, Crashing Wave Throw

When using Heaven Thunder Hammer or Crashing Wave Throw, the martial artist may increase their cost to 5m. In the former case the enhanced attack becomes unblockable. In both cases the Solar aims the flying victim at another valid target in the first target’s path. Only secondary targets within the range of the flight distance described in Charm in question are valid targets; if the initial victim would fly or fall further the range of this Charm’s effect is not increased.

This is an unblockable, unarmed Martial Arts attack against the second target using an improvised weapon. Its Accuracy is -3 and its base bashing damage is equal to (the lower of the first target’s Strength or Stamina). This secondary attack uses counterattack timing; it can’t enhance a counterattack nor be responded to with a counterattack, and it imposes the usual -1 DV penalty on the martial artist.

This should be a unarmed Dex+Thrown attack not an unarmed martial arts attack.  perhaps Perception+Martial arts.  Or maybe not.   Counterattack tag levies an addition -1 penalty on the countattacker. Is this your intent.  Would it be simpler to say that Attack two is resolved in step 9 of the first attack.  Not that it matters as you aren't using the thrown character's stat's for anything.  This charm seems wonky and unclear.  I like the conceptual notion of it.  But I'd consider clearly and concisely explaining first, where the accuracy of attack two was rolled etc.  Perhaps the accuracy is equal to Half (number of yards of knockback+Martial arts) successes, which values cannot be further enhanced by excelencies etc. (Ie you only get to enhance your attack against the target not the target's attack against target #2.    that way you skip an extraneous roll and you end up with a horendously high accuracy attack-- maybe not the greatest Idea actually but its definately worth revising this charm.
Also the duration of permanent charms is permanent.

Plague of Hats:

Irrepressible Bravery Tactic
Cost: —(3m); Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Thunderclap Rush Attack

When stunt dice from a two- or three-die stunt would apply to an unarmed Martial Arts attack the Solar may reflexively pay 3m to convert all dice awarded for the stunt into successes.

No. Its like a Mythos exultant thats not as good and cost motes. Maybe they are assured a minimum threshold of success on all martial arts stunts of 2 dice or more equal to half their value rounded up.   (so a two dice stunt gaurantees 1 success and a 3 dice stunt gaurantees two successes) at no cost.  Otherwise this is just a vaguely efficient success adder, but is  ultimately not worth the extra 3m.

Plague of Hats:

Dancing with Strife Technique
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 3; Type: Reflexive (Step 6)
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Irrepressible Bravery Tactic

When the Solar’s Parry or Dodge DV successfully defend her against an attack that applied at least (higher of 5 or [Solar’s Essence]) successes in Step 6, the Exalt regains 1wp up to her normal maximum.

You need to clarify this if your DDV defends you the attack it never gets to step 6.

Plague of Hats:

Inevitable Victory Meditation
Cost: 2m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 2; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Up to one scene
Prerequisite Charms: Fists of Iron Technique

Roll (Wits + Martial Arts), +(Essence) successes. Within the following scene, in Step 5 of the resolution of an unarmed Martial Arts attack, the Exalt may release this Charm’s motes to replace the roll’s result with the successes rolled activating this Charm. When activating this Charm the Solar may also activate Fists of Iron Technique without a Combo.

shat is the sped of this, I'm curious because I'm not clear on its duration does it last until the next scene? otherwise the duration needs only be One Scene with the notation that releasing motes commited ends its effects.  I think maybe this could be stackable.  Its a interesting take on the concept of a reroll charm.  I would make it not compatible with the third excelency.  Maybe it could be applied defensively in the same manner? Or maybe successes could be "drained"slowly from the pool a la Principle of motion (but obviosuly with successes not actions)

Plague of Hats:

Supremacy of War Method
Cost: 1m per die; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Stackable
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Dancing with Strife Technique, Inevitable Victory Meditation

Commit up to (Essence)m. Whenever the Solar is involved in a physical contested roll that is not an attack he is making, he “banks” a number of floating bonus dice equal to those the opponent got, maximum (committed motes). The Solar may have a total bank no greater than 10 floating dice. Whenever the Exalt performs an unarmed Martial Arts attack he may add up to (Essence) of these dice as a Charm bonus to the attack in Step 1 of resolution. Adding dice in this way does not count as a Charm use. The Solar may commit less than the maximum motes to this Charm, then reactivate it to increase the total without releasing the previous commitment.

please rephrase trying to parse this hurt my little female brain.

Plague of Hats:

Ascendant Battle Visage
Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: (Essence) actions or more
Prerequisite Charms: Supremacy of War Method

+(Essence) successes to actions that prove combat prowess, including unarmed Martial Arts attacks, coordinating attacks, actions necessary to reach foes like Jumping and Join Battle. Charm’s duration can be extended one action reflexively on any action the Solar does not act against her Valor. Each extra action of duration the Exalt rolls her Valor, gaining Limit for each success. If this results in 10 Limit the Exalt always enters Berserk Anger rather than any other condition, and Willpower she would regain comes at the end of the scene rather than at the moment of Limit Break. Recovered Willpower is based on Valor, never other Virtues even if it is not Flawed for the Exalt in question.

What happens when you ad successes to a jump? +2 yards? Does this improve melee combat as well (Since it can buff war which is used to co-ordinate attacks).  Parhaps add this charm may improve actions for other abilitie but the rating in those abilities is capped by the martial artist's  (martial arts).  Does the extending count as charm use?  Does this charm persist into limit break.  Why would I reflexively extend for 10m when I could wait an action and extend for 4 actions as a simple action.  Are my actions rely so precious that they are worth wasting 7.5 motes just to not have a one action delay on super rawr power?




Adamantine Fists of Battle
Cost: 7m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 6; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-Basic, Obvious
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: Pounding Hammer of Devastation, Solar Hero Form

Unarmed Martial Arts attacks add (Essence x 2) additional levels of damage in Step 7 of resolution.
how does one add levels before one applies soak.  This seem like an extremely expensive but not as useful raw damage adder.  Its only really good because of how high essence it is 12 Levels is a lot, but it might as well be cheaper and be 12 dice against the target that would allow themselves to take a hit like this.  Perhaps it assures a minimum of (Esssence/2) success on any damage roll for the scene.  A more modest but widly applicable benifit.  You could, bump the cost (and Essence) down a bit too then.  Maybe not though.  7m 1p (basically 11m) seems like a lot to pay for an effect which continues to be ecliped by fire and stones strike and if your doing damage like that its not likely that the scene long benefit is going to be a big enough payoff (cuz of the dying).  The exception Im thinking of is Behemoths and spirts which is not really what I think of Solar hero style being "geared towards fighting" though I guess thats appropos.
  Maybe a late stage damage dice adder might be cool here instenad.

Knockout Blow: Personally I would have just made Knockout blow higher in the tree.  But I guess this is okay.  I dont see it really being worth the charm purchase and the 1wp surcharge.

Horizon-Hurling Tactic: I dont understand ur revision it seems wholly unessecary.

Sorry that was bold wierd formating thing.

Azurelight:

Final edite: Cut most out, as it was redundant and not productive.. But what, exactly, do you mean by this?

I meant to be funny, and apparantly I failed pretty pathetically. Just a jab at how MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 often causes problems on this board.