Magic caught on tape

I may imagine it, but isn't it the case that a vulgar spell can become covert if the circumstances are right? If so, then what about filming magic? Is it fully visible on tape?
Of course, the sleeping viewers will see it as fancy special effects, but would that stop a fanatic Free Council cabal from trying?

No vulgar magic can never become covert, it may (with storyteller permission) become Improbable but that still can cause paradox.  Also covert magic can become Improbable as well.

Papilio:

I may imagine it, but isn't it the case that a vulgar spell can become covert if the circumstances are right?

The only time a vulgar spell can become "covert" is in a demesne. Even there it is really still vulgar, it just doesn't generate paradox because of local magical conditions.

Papilio:

If so, then what about filming magic? Is it fully visible on tape?
Of course, the sleeping viewers will see it as fancy special effects, but would that stop a fanatic Free Council cabal from trying?

Yes magic is filmable... but as you say, sleepers will take it for special effects, and filming vulgar effects is a great way to get the Guardians of the Veil to come by and cause trouble, or the Seers to come looking to make an example of you.

Nothing at all stop the filming of magic. The example story in the Free Council book actually does this. They apparently maintain a vlog about it.

Papilio:

I may imagine it, but isn't it the case that a vulgar spell can become covert if the circumstances are right? If so, then what about filming magic? Is it fully visible on tape?
Of course, the sleeping viewers will see it as fancy special effects, but would that stop a fanatic Free Council cabal from trying?

It won't become covert, it simply won't invoke Disbelief (big difference).

You use Space magic in front of an audience and portray it as slight of hand, than their won't be a +2 to paradox, Unravelling, or an alteration of their memories. The only potential advantage of this is to the mage though, since the people won't think it supernatural. If they do think it supernatural, than Disbelief will alter almost all of their memories. The result is ultimately the same.

If you film magic, either you make it look like special effects or it looks blatent and almost everyone Disbelieves it into thinking that it's special effects. Unless they have a strong will or you cast the right spell on them, it won't change anything.

Papilio:

If so, then what about filming magic? Is it fully visible on tape?

If the cover of Free Council is any indication, yes, Awakened magic can be caught on tape/recorded.

jburgos:

If the cover of Free Council is any indication, yes, Awakened magic can be caught on tape/recorded.

Not all magic is visible to the naked eye though - most spells need some kind of Mage Sight spell to see properly, except for the most horribly Vulgar spells out there. There's always that dissociative feeling when attending a Duel Arcane as everyone present brings up their Mage Sight and your Unseen Sense goes nuts.

The solution is easy though: enchant your camera with the advanced form of the basic Mage Sight spell. Doesn't solve all your problems, as Mage Sight doesn't work purely on the visual medium, but you'll get the picture of spells flying everywhere and raping reality into submission.

Deimos_Masque:

No vulgar magic can never become covert, it may (with storyteller permission) become Improbable

It can fail to invoke disbelief (or suffer Sleeper penalties to paradox) but always invokes paradox; "Improbable" is when a covert spell invokes paradox.

Not only is magic fully filmable, but mage society has even written laws about how mages aren't allowed to be so careless as to let their spells be recorded like that. It's considered a "breach of secrecy", and is seen as a rather serious felony in most concili.

If you cast a fireball while someone's camcording it, and that person puts the video on youtube so that there's actual footage and proof of the occult, the mage who cast the spell is in some deep trouble with the local law enforcement.

Heck, one of the main duties of the Guardians of the Veil is to search media and culture for such footage and reports of awakened magic and make it "go away", whether by ereasing it or making it looks entirely false. Quite a lot of their daily work resolves around this sort of thing, protecting the secrecy of magic, keeping the supernatural hidden from Sleeper eyes and consciousness.

Lankin:

Not only is magic fully filmable

Yep, exactly.

There is a theoretical possibility that vulgar can be transformed into covert magic through powerful manipulations of the Fallen World, or the belief of its inhabitants. This, however is far beyond the understanding of normal magi, which places this deep in the realm of storyteller preference. However, it is perfectly reasonable to have magi that believe in the possibility and research methods of causing the shift.

The Free Council covers this in the section discussing the working models of magic.

There isn't any specific circumstances that allow a normal magus to manipulate vulgarity as part of casting. There are artifacts, especially Seer artifacts that adjust those rules, though.

would not some spells be able to be filmed, eg the firebzll from a few posts ago, whilst some can not, eg stealing somebodies life as in the (death 5?) spell. surely there are some that wold include a cloaking effect...

Lankin:

If you cast a fireball while someone's camcording it, and that person puts the video on youtube so that there's actual footage and proof of the occult, the mage who cast the spell is in some deep trouble with the local law enforcement.

"oh cool!, look at that special effect! this must be a trailer for a movie or something!"

and that's not including Disbelief.

Shock:

oh cool!, look at that special effect! this must be a trailer for a movie or something!"

Until one of those pesky guys from Hunter: The Vigil who go around putting up real supernatural footage on the internet to "enlighten the masses" comes across the clip, and decide that there is a nasty Witch who likes playing with fire, and needs to be removed.

That's kind of their entire modus operendi actually  :)

So yeah, it could still be very bad. 

So only 0.5% of the population that watches youtube would think its real and investigate, that's a damn large number of people to be looking for you.   Yeah the Guardians would be extremely miffed.

Shaitan40too:

Until one of those pesky guys from Hunter: The Vigil who go around putting up real supernatural footage on the internet to "enlighten the masses" comes across the clip, and decide that there is a nasty Witch who likes playing with fire, and needs to be removed.

That's kind of their entire modus operendi actually  :)

actually, Network Zero is probably the most mage friendly compact out there considering they both want the same thing in common (The Truth) and trying to "enlighten the masses"... isn't that what the Orders are trying to do? Awaken people?

but this is assuming the Mage keeps his/her hands to her self and respects the rights of others.. which sadly few do.

Shaitan40too:

So only 0.5% of the population that watches youtube would think its real and investigate, that's a damn large number of people to be looking for you.   Yeah the Guardians would be extremely miffed.

and the Free Council would show a little cautious optimism that a group of sleepers would seek out the supernatural and hopeful shake free of the Lie.

but you do have a point when the 15% of that 0.5% do come looking to tear you a new one when a long dead Mage tried to kill them.