Argue ferociously about Sidereal Martial Arts in this thread.

Sojko:

Spell Shattering Palm needs the Sorcerous keyword.

That could have some interesting consequences. I recall that adamantine circle countermagic creates a huge explosion when countering solar circle sorcery. If Spell Shattering Palm was sorcerous then what would happen if two sidereals high-five with this charm?

SMA should make a Sidereal more powerful.

But if SMA is necessary to stand up to other Celestial in high-Essence combat, then either something is terribly wrong, or more likely you're just doing it wrong.

Sojko:

Spell Shattering Palm needs the Sorcerous keyword.

That doesn't make sense.

Lord Darkview:

But if SMA is necessary to stand up to other Celestial in high-Essence combat, then either something is terribly wrong, or more likely you're just doing it wrong.

Um-- we have no high essence celestial charms other than sma.  Given this and the fact that SMA are supposed to roughly equal Solar charms of the equivalent essence level (but wierder and probably less effective) then there is nothing really to establish balance by.

Of course SMA are essential for Sidereals in High essence combat they have no other high essence charms.

They aren't for others because their native charms will be more directly powerful (solars and abyssals), lunar charms will probably be less potent but more versatile (as per the norm)

Lord Darkview:

SMA should make a Sidereal more powerful.

But if SMA is necessary to stand up to other Celestial in high-Essence combat, then either something is terribly wrong, or more likely you're just doing it wrong.

May I ask what imaginary power you pulled out of your ass that gives sidereals essence 6 charms?

Epimetheus:

May I ask what imaginary power you pulled out of your ass that gives sidereals essence 6 charms?

Love

Hecaton:

My tune on SMA may change once glories comes out.  For now, I dislike that what are currently the most powerful suite of combat charms in the game are primarily restricted to what are supposed to be the most subtle of all Exalts in terms of their operation.  I also dislike that Sidereals are described as having a more enlightened or refined essence than other Celestials, and I dislike that there are less of them than the others... actually it's kind of ironic that thematically I have the most problem with Sidereals but the most enjoyable Exalted game that I can remember is one I ran for Sidereal PCs.

Personally I'd still go with the Solar charmset but that's me. As for more enlightened essence. Given the text I remember. That would be Solars, not Sidereals. Sidereal essence simply is the best for fate manipulation and it so happens that the nature of manipulating essence through Martial Arts feels very comfortable to Sidereals and they have the most knack for it.

JiveX:

We have no high essence Celestial Charms other than SMA.

Sure we do.  There are some in Dreams of the First Age, about sixty-five percent of which are usable; and if you don't like those, I hear Glories of the Most High is due out Wednesday.

JimB:

JiveX:

We have no high essence Celestial Charms other than SMA.

Sure we do.  There are some in Dreams of the First Age, about sixty-five percent of which are usable; and if you don't like those, I hear Glories of the Most High is due out Wednesday.

Lol. It's actually forty-eight percent. Dragon-Blooded aren't Celestials.

JimB:

Sure we do.  There are some in Dreams of the First Age, about sixty-five percent of which are usable; and if you don't like those, I hear Glories of the Most High is due out Wednesday.

The problem is they are lunar charms which are (because of their Attribute orientation and the nature of attribute based charms) really bad templates for the design of ability (even wierd ability) based charms.

Glories will help yes.

Epimetheus:

It's actually forty-eight percent. Dragon-Blooded aren't Celestials.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about them.  I figured at least a couple of the Solar Charms are usable (I don't remember any problem with the Thrown Charm, for instance), and I don't remember any of the Lunar Charms sucking, but maybe my memory is off.

I was just rereading some of the charms in the SotM. Something occurred to me: how do you defend against the pinnacle charms of Obsidian Shards and Quicksilver hand of Dreams? They are both "do whatever you want" charms. The example for Breathing on the Black Mirror is killing Ligier. This is an essence seven charm.

How would an essence 8 or 9 solar defend against this?

lantash1482:

I was just rereading some of the charms in the SotM. Something occurred to me: how do you defend against the pinnacle charms of Obsidian Shards and Quicksilver hand of Dreams? They are both "do whatever you want" charms. The example for Breathing on the Black Mirror is killing Ligier. This is an essence seven charm.

How would an essence 8 or 9 solar defend against this?

Obsidian shards needs work. personally it should merely allow a person to have (essence) different possibilities for the next action. Quicksilver hand is shaping, it's like fighting fair folk.

Epimetheus:

How would an essence 8 or 9 solar defend against this?

Epimetheus:

Obsidian shards needs work. personally it should merely allow a person to have (essence) different possibilities for the next action. Quicksilver hand is shaping, it's like fighting fair folk.

It's been a while since I looked at QHoD, but I recall two issues:

First, Quicksilver Hand of Dreams form makes it so you can't die if you use it at all intelligently.  That's just a bad idea.  It has drawbacks, yes, but none that would let you kill someone who has it.

Second, my problem with the pinnacle charm, Fantasy, is not "how do you fight it" (that's easy, it's an Essence 7 charm that can be blocked by either IPP or by spending WP) it's "how does it work when there's nobody to fight it."  It's not clear how it works when there's nobody around to spend WP to prevent you from doing whatever you want.  As written it can cause anything coherent to occur, and a charm that lets you cause anything you want to happen as long as it's coherent and there's nobody around to spend WP to stop you is probably too powerful.