Lunar Hero Style, re-envisioned -- grappling, chains, yo-yos, tentacles

I'm looking into a grappling-oriented form of Lunar Hero Style, as grappling is the one truly odd place among their native Charms, since it can be covered by Strength or Dexterity. And the Charms involved are generally much narrower than other Lunar combat Charms. So, turning them into Martial Arts Charms seems like a good idea.

Here's thread I started on chains and restraining thrown weapons, which is relevant: http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/15445.aspx?PageIndex=1


Sinuous Striking Grace
Flesh-Tearing Entanglement
--- Jaws of the River Dragon
--- --- --- Lunar Hero Form
--- --- --- --- Unmoving Bear Defense
--- --- --- --- Startling Tentacle Attack
--- --- --- --- Many-Armed Monkey Style
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Grasping Psuedopod Method

Sinuous Striking Grace = Reflexive, endures for one action. Negates any penalty for using a long weapon within confined quarters. Reduces external penalties to any form of Called Shot by 2, making aiming for the neck with a lasso or chain easier, not to mention binding arms or legs with a bola. Also helps with Sweeping Attacks, whether with kicks or chains, and Fierce Blows. Or even Fierce Blow Sweeping Attacks. Finally, the martial artist may block lethal attacks with weapons normally too weak to do so, such as bare hands, ropes, cloth or hair. Rope weapons such as those gain +2 to defense for that purpose.

Flesh-Tearing Entanglement = Reflexive or Supplemental, Instant duration. Doubles the raw damage of a grappling or restraining attack. If you used a barbed net, this Charm doubles the damage that the victim suffers until they get free of the net.

Jaws of the River Dragon = Permanent upgrade to FTE. If you cause any damage with that Charm (or just succeeded in hitting the target?), the victim suffers an external penalty of the Lunar's Essence to the next opposed grapple check. If you used a thrown restraining weapon, this penalty stacks with the natural external penalty that the victim faces from the restraint.

Lunar Hero Form = As Solar Dragon Coil Technique. Additionally, if grappling with a clinching weapon that does not normally inflict piercing damage, the weapon gains that quality. If the weapon does pierce in a clinch, then it ignores Hardness. Finally, the martial artist may block lethal attacks with weapons normally too weak to do so, such as bare hands, ropes, cloth or hair. Rope weapons such as those gain +2 to defense for that purpose.

Unmoving Bear Defense = Reflexive, One Scene. Increases the Lunar's effective weight and/or grants immunity (or near-immunity) to knockdown and knockback. YOU do the dragging around and yanking in these tug-of-war contests.

Startling Tentacle Attack = Supplemental, Until Released. Manipulate the length of your clinching weapon (arm, tentacle, chain, rope) to reach out to greater range, and bind the target's entire body rather than just his neck, arms or legs. Thus, you can establish and control a true clinch at range. You may also reduce the length of the weapon to draw the victim in.

Many-Armed Monkey Style = As the native Lunar Wits Charm. Only an Extra Action as flexible as this one is flexible enough for this crazy (crazy-awesome?) Style. Of course, any other Exalt using this Style cannot use it to attack with non-Style weapons, which limit it to bare hands, chains, ropes, and throwing restraint weapons.

Grasping Psuedopod Method = The pinnacle Charm. As Infernal Monster Style's World-Breaker Grip. Why is this the pinnacle? Because you can not only execute this at close range to turn an enemy into a club, but you can use the weapons and Charms of this Style to reach out at long range and turn your enemy into a human yo-yo / wrecking ball.

Also from elsewhere

Oh and now for praise.  Okay.  Your Lunar Hero Style seems nice though I am sorry to see the grab-bag of tricks go.  Isn't it possible to have both?

Let me guess you saw Bride of the White Hair or you just like hair attack as a Lunar... signature :)  Do you feel giving Lunar's DCT as a form won't be as bothersome to other Lunar fans same as the Lunar emotion effecting charms are to you?

Thanks for posting this over here, too.

Darmani:

Oh and now for praise.  Okay.  you Lunar Hero Style seems nice

Thanks.

Let me guess you saw Bride of the White Hair or you just like hair attack as a Lunar... signature.

Nope. It was because Scroll of the Monk mentioned that you could improvise a weighted rope weapon by tying a weight to the end of a ponytail. I wanted to allow and even encourage that kind of creativity.

And I figured, if the Style was going to draw inspiration from one Guilty Gear character -- Bridget -- why not from that other character, the one who fights with her hair? (Though the Style by itself doesn't really allow for that.)

Do you feel giving Lunar's DCT as a form won't be as bothersome to other Lunar fans same as the emotion affect charms are to you?

As bothersome? I don't know. In nearly the same way? No way.

And I'm not saying that I think it's the best possible idea for the Form Charm; it's just the best idea I could come up with. I welcome anyone else trying to come up with something better.

I like what I see so far, but I only skimmed through. You seen to have found some way to make a decent Lunar Hero style and I agree that grappling charms were an oddball before...

danelsan:

I like what I see so far, but I only skimmed through. You seen to have found some way to make a decent Lunar Hero style

Thing is, I suck at designing Martial Arts Styles. I have no real idea what I'm doing.

I'm not waiting for someone to come along and rip this Style a new anus. I'm waiting for someone to point out the extra anus that I know must already be there, and I'm hoping it can be surgically repaired.


Aw, heck. I forgot just how much information I was leaving out. Okay...

LUNAR HERO STYLE
The Lunar Exalted treat these Charms as native Attribute Charms, either Strength or Dexterity. The Lunar Exalted may also purchase them if they were normal Martial Arts Charms. If the Lunar favors the trait that he or she uses to meet the minimum of a Charm upon purchase, the Lunar pays the favored experience points cost for that Charm. (Expansion Charms to this Style might be either Attribute or Martial Arts based. Ugh. Confusing.)

Armor: Any, or at least any that does not hinder mobility. Heavy armor in particular is useful to this Style, as it helps protect practioners against opponents lifting them up or dragging them around with their own chains.

Weapons: Not a concern for Lunars, of course, but for other Exalted. Thrown retraining weapons of all sorts, and any artifact versions thereof. Rope and chain weapons of any sort, and artifact versions thereof. This may include the Chain Daiklaive in any form, or at least any form except its short daiklaive configuration. This Style also works well with tentacle natural weapons or similar pseudopod appendages.

Does no one want to rake this proposed Style over the coals?


Edit: It would probably help if I actually wrote out mechanics, huh? *slaps forehead*

Sorry.

Inugami:

Nope. It was because Scroll of the Monk mentioned that you could improvise a weighted rope weapon by tying a weight to the end of a ponytail.

That was the basic inspiration I used as well to make a Solar... yards long hair with a bell in the end of it, master of Dreaming Pearl style.  Ended up being the most fun character I've had in ages because everyone wanted to either kill him or rape him, and nobody could.

Once again, I'll point out that this Style may be practiced in armor. The compatible weapons for this Style include anything involving wires (garrote), rope (lasso), clothe or hair (improvised weighted rope and such), and chains, as well as thrown restraining weapons, and any artifact versions thereof.

Clinching with chains and ropes is considered to be something done basically at close-range, so that the grappler is able to use his whole body to wrap the weapon around her victim and dynamically apply power and leverage to keep him constrained. Due to the Reach tag, targets on horses and above the character's head are valid targets for clinching.

Lashing out at more distant targets is more imprecise and difficult to control. Called shots are required to target the arms (pinning them to the body), legs (binding them together) or neck. The victims are bound, but do not become inactive as if held in a true grapple -- they retain some ability to fight back or move.

Victims and clinchers are likely to engage in tug-of-war contests as contested feats of strength actions (modified by each opponent's weight), to see who pulls who in closer, and to try yanking the opponent off their feet. If the contest goes especially poorly for the clincher, they may lose their grip on their weapon entirely -- a former victim who was grasping the rope with their hands may even find that they now have possession of the weapon.

Remote targets may be fully restrained without a true grapple simply by binding their arms and legs with two different bolas or ropes.


This Hero Style is just as unique and characteristic as the others. The Solar Hero seeks to challenge mighty foes and lay them out on the ground with superior application of force. The Dark Messiah seeks to break opponents into bleeding, screaming pieces or to silently swallow them within the grip of death. The Infernal Monster seek to vent his terrible anger by smashing opponents into the ground and then smashing them deeper. The executioners of the Violet Bier of Sorrows seek a swift and decisive End to their targets while avoiding an untimely End of their own.

The Lunar Hero seeks only to render his opponents completely helpless.


SINUOUS STRIKING GRACE -- The Lunar's learn to strike with the impossible, twisting grace of Moonsilver; they strike exactly what they mean to.
3m
Reflexive (Step 1 or 2), One Action
Combo-OK, Obvious?
Martial Arts 2, Essence 2 -- No Prior Charms

For the rest of the Lunar's action, this Charm also completely negates the Accuracy penalties for Sweeping Attacks (Exalted, p. 153) as well as for swinging a long weapon within a confined space (Scroll of the Monk, p. 156) -- this does not enhance the Accuracy of the weapon itself, however. This Charm also reduces the external penalties of any kind of Called Shot (Exalted , p. 158) by 2. This includes Fierce Blows, for the Lunar Exalted mingle power with grace.

Finally, until the character's next action, she may parry lethal attacks with weapons normally too weak to do so, such as bare hands or lengths of wire, rope, cloth or hair. Any such weapon that does not normally have a Defense bonus is considered to have +2 Defense for the purpose.


FLESH-TEARING ENTANGLEMENT -- Lunars’ mastery of their own bodies provides them superior knowledge of others'.
3m
Reflexive (Step 7), Instant
Combo-OK
Martial Arts 2, Essence 2 -- No Prerequisite Charms

This Charm supplements a grapple attack or opposed grapple check, or an attack made with a thrown restraining weapon. If the attack succeeds, the Lunar doubles any extra successes for the purpose of determining raw damage. If the weapon is a net, it doubles the amount of any damage that the net would inflict for as long as the victim is bound. If used to supplement an opposed grapple check, this Charm may be activated after the victor of the check is determined.


JAWS OF THE RIVER DRAGON -- None can escape a Steward’s punishment.
No Cost
Permanent
No Keywords
Martial Arts 3, Essence 2 -- Flesh-Tearing Entanglement

This Charm permanently enhances Flesh-Tearing Entanglement. If the Lunar successfully inflicts damage with a clinch, opposed grapple roll, or thrown restraining weapon, the damage also weakens her opponent. The victim of this Charm suffers an external penalty on the next opposed grapple check equal to the Lunar’s Essence. This penalty is explicitly allowed to stack with a penalty naturally caused by a thrown restraining weapon.


LUNAR HERO FORM -- Whether their prefered method be brute strength or twisting suppleness, the Lunar Exalted are masters of close, personal combat. The clutches of the Stewards are like the jaws of Nature itself.
5m
Simple, One Scene
Form-type
Martial Arts 4, Essence 2 -- Jaws of the River Dragon, Startling Tentacle Attack

The Lunar adds Essence in dice to any grappling attack or opposed grappling check, and to the yards of distance that the Lunar may throw an opponent when breaking a hold. The Lunar also adds his Essence to the base damage of a crushing clinch attack. If the clinch is not piercing, it becomes piercing. If the clinch is already piercing, it ignores Hardness.

The Lunar may also parry lethal attacks with weapons normally too weak to do so, as with Sinuous Striking Grace.

Okay, I've been working on Startling Tentacle Attack, and also Grasping Pseudopod Method. The two Charms are so very conceptually and tactically linked that I had to work on them both at once, and there is actually an alternate write-up -- included here -- that combines them into a single Charm.

Grasping Pseudopod Method itself was based on Infernal Monster Style's World-Breaker Grip, but became so much more flexible in implimentation that I had to break it into two Charms, with the upgrade becoming the pinnacle of the Style, and blessed with one mind-blowing trick that I absolutely love to death.

That said, I fully realize that these Charms are messy and unpolished. I'm counting on criticism and feedback to help tune them up, since I'm sick of working on them for the moment. I'd appreciate a fresh perspective.


So, here's the rest of the first draft of Lunar Hero Style: Enkidu Variation.


STARTLING TENTACLE ATTACK -- Nothing escapes a Lunar Hero's grasp. Their reach is long and their strength is binding.
4m
Supplemental, Until Released
Combo-OK, Obvious
Martial Arts 3, Essence 2 -- Sinuous Striking Grace

This Charm supplements an unarmed attack, a grappling attack, an opposed grapple check, or an attack made with a thrown restraining weapon. When used with a projectile thrown restraining weapon, such as a net or bola, this Charm increases the size of the weapon such that it may successfully restrain any target (single creature), no matter how enormous (Magnitude 9?). Used thus, the martial artist may maintain this Charm up until the victim frees itself.

This Charm works in a different fashion for natural appendages and all other form weapons. Whether the weapon be the martial artist's arm or a rope, the Lunar gains the ability to magically alter the weapon's length, increasing the range of the attack by a factor of the Lunar's Essence. This may be a striking attack as normal, but this Charm also allows the Lunar to instead make a grappling attack with the weapon, even though distance would normally deny him the proper leverage to do so. When used to so grapple a target, the weapon's length increases further in order to wrap fully around the victim's arms and legs, completely immobilizing him, no matter how large the target may be. But no matter how large the target, the maximum range allowed remains the same.

As long as this Charm is maintained, the Lunar's weapon is improbably animated by his will. Using it, he may hold, crush or even throw the victim of a clinch as normal, no matter the distance between them. Further, he gains the option to throw his victim without breaking the hold, so long as the victim remains within the maximum range of the clinching weapon.

The Lunar may instantly reduce or increase the length the weapon at any time. Among other uses, this allows a Lunar who invoked the Charm at close range to remove himself a distance from his bound victim, or to throw the victim a distance away from himself.


GRASPING PSEUDOPOD METHOD
5m,1w
Supplemental, Until Released
Combo-OK, Obvious?
Martial Arts 4, Essence 3 -- Lunar Hero Form or Many-Armed Monkey Style

This Charm supplements a grapple attack or opposed grapple check. The Exalt grapples using a single limb or weapon of his choice without any off-hand penalties. If the attack succeeds, the grapple no longer requires any effort apart from tying up the non-reflexive use of the attacking limb or weapon. Consequently, the attacker may defend and fight normally with his remaining limbs, without the usual restrictions placed on grapplers. He may even make other physical attacks against the reflexively grappled opponent, but any additional grappling attack only adds a bonus die to the Lunar's reflexive grapple check.

He must still roll to maintain control each action, but this roll is reflexive for him, so he always applies his full dice pool regardless of whatever other actions he takes. He may also simply switch which limb or weapon is holding the victim at the successful resolution of a grapple check. The Charm immediately ends if the held opponent escapes or if the martial artist uses control of the grapple to break the hold in any way.

Additionally, this Charm doubles the Lunar's strength for the purpose of lifting and dragging his opponent.

The Lunar may not use the victim as a weapon, but may employ him as a shield, adding +1 DV against close-range attack and +2 DV against ranged attacks, as well as an appropriate cover penalty.


BODY WEAPON TECHNIQUE
No Cost
Permanent
Obvious
Martial Arts 5, Essence 3 -- Grasping Pseudopod Method

This Charm permanently upgrades Grasping Pseudopod Method, granting a new option: to use his restrained victim as a human weapon and shield. To do so, the Lunar must use a successful resolution of the reflexive grapple check to merely hold his opponent, not crush him. The Lunar must still use the reflexive roll of Grasping Pseudopod Method to maintain control of his victim each action, but may not crush him while using him thus. However, following any sucessful grapple check, the Lunar may opt to stop using the victim as a weapon and return to reflexively crushing her.

The martial artist can use a held enemy as an improvised clinching weapon, using the following statistics: Speed 6; Accuracy -3; Base Damage +(Strength x 2)B; Rate 1; Tags: Clinch, Martial Arts, Piercing, Reach. Whenever a wielded character is used to inflict a crushing clinch attack, she suffers (the martial artist’s Strength) dice of piercing damage from the crushing pressure. This damage is bashing unless the held character is used to clinch a target that is hazardous to touch. If this punishment kills a held victim, her corpse remains a useful weapon for the rest of the Charm’s duration.

If multiple victims are held with Grasping Pseudopod Method, the Lunar may use as many of them as he pleases as clinching weapons, though this has limited results against a single target (UNDEFINIED AS YET).

The martial artist may alternatively use a held enemy as one-handed weapon to strike or parry using the following statistics: Speed 6; Accuracy -3; Base Damage +(Strength x 2)B; Defense -3; Rate 2; Tags: Martial Arts, Piercing, Reach. Whenever a wielded character hits a target or blocks an attack, she suffers damage from the impact as per being used as a crushing clinch weapon. This damage is bashing unless the held character is used to block a lethal or aggravated attack.

The martial artist may even put the held victim to a more dramatic use, if the victim is being held with a weapon supplemented by Startling Tentacle Attack. He may use her to turn his weapon into an improvised sort of weighed rope or yo-yo, which may use the clinching, striking and parrying statistics and rules above, in addition to the attack range afforded by Startling Tentacle Attack.


Sidebar: The Heavens That Twisted the Black Boar
By using Startling Tentacle Attack and Grasping Pseudopod Method twice each to bind one opponent apiece with each end of the same rope or chain weapon, the Lunar may make an enormous, improvised bola out of it, with the following statistics: Speed 6, Accuracy -3, Base Damage +(Strength x 2)B, Rate 1, Range 20 (yards), Tags: Clinch. This requires that the Lunar has enough strength to lift the combined weight of both held victims.

Executing this attack ends all relevant invocations of this Charm and Startling Tentacle Attack after the resolution of the attack, but the two victims must afterwards make rolled-dice actions as normal for freeing themselves from the restraint, and suffer any external penalties that the third target does upon a successful attack. Regardless of the success or failure of the attack, the two victims serving as the weights take damage as repeatedly outlined above.

This very involved tactic is known as The Heavens Which Twist the Black Boar, for it was the attack which led to Isidoros' defeat during the Primordial War. Ogun Bloody-Tusks used Isidoros's fetich and another third circle soul to make this titanic bola, allowing his Solar Mate to deliver the crippling blow.




GRASPING PSEUDOPOD METHOD (ALTERNATIVE; subsumes Startling Tentacle Attack)
3m or 5m,1w
Supplemental, Until Released
Combo-OK, Obvious?
Martial Arts 4/5, Essence 3 -- Many-Armed Monkey Style

This Charm supplements an unarmed attack, a grapple attack, an opposed grapple check, or an attack made with a thrown restraining weapon. When used with a projectile thrown restraining weapon, such as a net or bola, this Charm increases the size of the weapon such that it may successfully restrain any target (single creature), no matter how enormous (Magnitude 9?). Used thus, the martial artist may maintain this Charm up until the victim frees itself.

This Charm works in a different fashion for natural appendages and all other form weapons. Whether the weapon be the martial artist's arm or a rope, the Lunar gains the ability to magically alter the weapon's length, increasing the range of the attack by a factor of the Lunar's Essence. This may be a striking attack as normal, but if the weapon is capable of clinching, this Charm allows the Lunar to instead make a grappling attack with the weapon, even though distance would normally deny him the proper leverage to do so. Making such a grappling attack increases the cost of the Charm to a total of five motes and one Willpower point. When used to so grapple a target, the weapon's length increases further in order to wrap fully around the victim's arms and legs, completely immobilizing him, no matter how large the target may be. But no matter how large the target, the maximum range allowed remains the same.

As long as this Charm is maintained, the Lunar's weapon is improbably animated by his will. The grapple no longer requires any effort apart from tying up the non-reflexive use of the attacking limb or weapon. Consequently, the attacker may defend and fight normally with his remaining limbs and weapons, without the usual restrictions placed on grapplers. He may even make other physical attacks against the reflexively grappled opponent, but any additional grappling attack only adds a bonus die to the Lunar's reflexive grapple check.

He must still roll to maintain control each action, but this roll is reflexive for him, so he always applies his full dice pool regardless of whatever other actions he takes. He may also simply switch which limb or weapon is holding the victim at the successful resolution of a grapple check. The Charm immediately ends if the held opponent escapes or if the martial artist uses control of the grapple to break the hold in any way.

The Lunar may hold, crush or even throw the victim of a clinch as normal, no matter the distance between them. Further, he gains the option to throw his victim without breaking the hold, so long as the victim remains within the maximum range of the clinching weapon.

The Lunar may not use the victim as a weapon, but may employ him as a shield, adding +1 DV against close-range attack and +2 DV against ranged attacks, as well as an appropriate cover penalty.

The Lunar may instantly reduce or increase the length the weapon at any time. Among other uses, this allows a Lunar who invoked the Charm at close range to remove himself a distance from his bound victim, or to throw the victim a distance away from himself.

Have I mentioned that I really love the Heavens That Twists the Black Boar idea?

This whole Style brings the Enkidu versus the Bull of Heaven bit from the Epic of Gilgamesh to Exalted, and I think hurling a huge, improvised demon-bola to trip up and bind Isidoros himself is pretty awesome.

*permits a slight crooking of the ends of his lips* Okay its not that bad.  

Darmani:

*permits a slight crooking of the ends of his lips* Okay its not that bad.  

GIANT. DEMON. BOLA.

And I'm gonna need more detailed criticism than that. I had to try and design these Charms for use with bare hands and a host of form weapons. It's screwy.

Hell, I was so happy I found an idea that brought bolas and nets (and especially bolas) back into the Style after Sinuous Striking Grace. I didn't think they'd figure in all that much, and then I figured out how to make Startling Tentacle Attack apply meaningfully for them. And again, The Heavens That Twisted The Black Boar.

Anyone know where I can find the spoiler material on the Alchemical monomolecular wires weapon? I looked for it and failed.

I'd be really happy if Alchemicals learned this Style and practiced it with Walter-wires.

Just teasing.  I'm amused but nowhere NEAR qualified ESPECIALLY with lunar charm sets.  Everything builds on the other.  My only complaint is the odd charm then permenant upgrade RIGHT AFTER IT that's.. ya know "in style!"  not a Lunar only expansion.  Its like.. Wah,  I mean its like you're acknowledging its a speed bump.  There isn't even a significant distance of stats nor is it out of the way or anything

Form seems nice though working overtime.  That's not bad just something I'm unsure of without a playtest.  



 Your format is making me think of a schitck for arranging Lunar trees.  Sidereals are all playing thematic hooky.  Dragonblooded are... well really trying to fit anything under anything (seriously fess up my is wind armor under thrown, say nothing of walking on air in stealth and other tricks).  Lunars would be able to ignore requisites only it would need to be designed so you are alternatively slotting in and out of charms and their replacements but without a solid foundation you're "stuck" at advancement.  Seems fun enough idea for the charm set.  but don't do it you 'just' got one that worked.

I'm less impressed with Demon Bolas so much as taking the tossing people idea and running well with it. As well with using longer range melee weapons, a nich not that covered by other martial arts or charm sets, and focusing on making it do something besides the killswat.  It does tie Lunars with certain weapons and tricks but they are good ones.  I'm apprehensive of growing your cord or armslength as a martial arts charm ability but again that's me.  I mean MA charms do weird shit.it just feels a bit different.  Then again I never worked much with Lunar themes and expectations.


This also feels much MUCH less constrained than another attempt though still working well with clinching.  I'm surprised your focus there I thought Lunar's were the defacto clinch masters in the game (more commonly higher raw stats) ot did excellencies even things out alot there?  

Darmani:

My only complaint is the odd charm then permenant upgrade RIGHT AFTER IT that's.. ya know "in style!"  not a Lunar only expansion.  Its like.. Wah,  I mean its like you're acknowledging its a speed bump.  There isn't even a significant distance of stats nor is it out of the way or anything

That was certainly one of my complaints against Flesh-Tearing Entanglement and Jaws of the River Dragon, and is what I tried to avoid.

In this case, it's definitely not that Flesh-Tearing Entanglement is weak. I made it stronger through greater versatility, since it now works with thrown restraining weapons as well as grappling attacks and opposed grapple checks. (Besides, it's a foundation MA Charm. Any weakness is mandatory.)

This same increase in possible applications makes Jaws of the River Dragon stronger too, since I allow the penalty to work with those weapons as well as with clinches. And if either of these two Charms is too weak to be a justifiable Charm by itself, it's Jaws, not Entanglement. That's why Jaws is the one that upgrades Entanglement, not the other way around.

A Charm should never need an upgrade Charm to become worthwhile, but an upgrade Charm is generally not worthwhile without the basic Charm that it upgrades. I upheld that philosophy with these two.

I don't think you're complaining about Grasping Pseudopod Method and Body Weapon Technique. Even of GPM isn't as strong as World-Breaker Grip, WBG doesn't have Startling Tentacle Attack and cannot be used with chains, ropes, whips or whatnot. Within the context of armor, form-weapons and previous Charms, it should be about equal.

Form seems nice though working overtime.  That's not bad just something I'm unsure of without a playtest.

I've been advised to remove the bits about piercing and ignoring hardness. And really, the Strength Charms that Lunars already have for doing such things should apply to clinches as easily as strikes.

Instead, I might have the Form double the Lunar's Strength for the purpose of dragging and lifting the grappling opponent, rather than placing that effect elsewhere.

I'm less impressed with Demon Bolas so much as taking the tossing people idea and running well with it.

Yes, honesty the Demon Bola is a very unwieldly weapon that would generally be useful only against behemoths, since a perfect dodge or parry could easily defeat it. Though very impressive if you managed to get it to work, you're correct that the other applications of Body Weapon Technique are far more practically useful.

That's why the practically useful stuff is what the Charm focuses on, and the Demon Bola is Sidebar material.

I'm apprehensive of growing your cord or armslength as a martial arts charm ability but again that's me.  I mean MA charms do weird shit.it just feels a bit different.  Then again I never worked much with Lunar themes and expectations.

I'm not entirely happy with this Charm, for a number of reasons. Lunars already had the Monkey Arm Style Knack for extending their limbs; and now they have Argent Weaver Art for very long, very strong essence-weblines. And yeah, extending limbs is a funky trick for a Hero Style to be teaching non-Lunars, and perhaps especially non-Moonsilver Caste Alchemicals.

But extending ropes and chains is very tactically important to this Style, and if a Hero Style has a Charm to extend a form weapon, it should extend a natural limb -- especially if it's LUNAR Hero Style.

I could remove the Charm, and design a particular brand of Dire Chain that practicioners commonly wield, as Air Dragon Stylists have the Infinite Jade Chakram. But then, I lose the neat trick of also being able to make nets and bolas big enough to capture targets larger (or smaller, even) than they were intended for.

I could, alternatively, make it a Lunar-only expansion Charm...

This also feels much MUCH less constrained than another attempt though still working well with clinching.

I'm not sure what you're saying with this sentence. It seems like you're refering to my Nocturnal/Diurnal attempt, and then you change subject half-way through the sentence without so much as a comma as a warning. In which case, it's very poor writing -- you cannot expect anyone to follow your train of thought like that. You need to use periods and commas as signposts.

Alternatively, you're just refering to something I'm not getting.

I'm surprised your focus there I thought Lunar's were the defacto clinch masters in the game (more commonly higher raw stats) ot did excellencies even things out alot there?

The current Lunar grappling Charms are not powerful enough to make up for their lack of versatility, and are poorly organized, with Throat-Baring Hold being in an extremely bad place, and with Cunning Porcupine Defense at the top, rather than following after Claws of the Silver Moon.

A Hero Style should be about brawling. Native Lunar Charms already excellently cover punches and kicks among all other kinds of striking attacks, such as swords, javelins, and arrows. So, I figured that Lunar Hero Style should return Lunars to their former place as absolute GODS of grappling, by focusing on nothing but attacks that grappled and bound their enemies. And turning the Lunar grappling Charms into Martial Arts Charms meant that they would be of the proper power-level without needing to be greatly adjusted in their effects.