Flowing Body Ascension and the Recent Errata

molez:

It would be great if we could get more information on what is in the pipeline. All I think we have seen of late is the stuff from Glories (which, don't get me wrong, was VERY welcome), I just think that at the moment errata looks a bit dead on its feet. I'm sure that isn't the case from what has been said, but such a small percentage of Exalted players trawl through threads like this one to get information. Even if it was just a - "What the Errata Team Prime is currently focusing on" or something similar?

molez,

The problem with telling you what's "in the pipeline" is that we don't know what'll make it through to the other side and rather than pulling a bait-and-switch of "Well, Errata Team Prime has worked on X" and then you never see it or don't see it for months or weeks or whatever the time-frame happens to be and get into snafus like those that happen with book release dates, the best Errata Team Prime really could tell you is that they're working on things.  Yes, I know, it's frustrating to know that things are in progress and you don't actually have them.  Shoot, I've been waiting to see my work in print now for the better part of a year.  I hope that you can trust that no matter the reason for the hold up on any particular items of note, it is coming.  As for the errata being "dead on its feet", the last update to errata was on August 30th.  So, it's been two months, which while significant in and of itself, pales in comparison to the length of time it took to get Errata Team Prime started in the first place.

But, I understand the impatience to see it actually make it to print...

Bodhi, I don't suppose that you could shed any light on how the errata process goes?

Bodhisattva:

There are things beyond the control of the freelancers addressing errata that prevent it from going directly up on the wiki the moment it's written.  You really should be thanking freelancers like Holden, Neall and Nephilpal for pushing these errata items as much as they have already, otherwise, they might still be in the delayed holding pattern that some of the other errata seems to be in.

Look, I'm watching this forum long enough to well understand what you're saying. I understand that the items still waiting for fixes are not your fault, or Neph's, or Holden's, or Neall's, or anyone in particular. And I was never sparing in giving you praise when it was due, such as when Holden took his time to create all those recent invaluable errata items. This has never been an issue between me and any of you.

But this is an issue between me and WW as company. As a paying customer, I'm entitled to a working product, and if it wasn't delivered to me in such a form when first released, it ought to be fixed ASAP. That's an honest demand from an honest customer, don't you think?

Once again, I'm not directing this demand towards any of you freelancers. I'm directing it at the company. The company gets demands, you get words of encouragement and praise (when due, of course). Does that sound like a fair deal?

BalSeraph:

Bodhi, I don't suppose that you could shed any light on how the errata process goes?

If you can would you please tell us about any of the following: 

1) How are the various bits selected to undergo reviewed (not all errata has come from questions posed on the wiki)?

2) What's done to determine how a correction should be made, any testing or conferring with the corresponding author?

3) How does the suggested errata get official approval?

4) Finally, in addition to what steps are required to get the approved errata posted to the wiki, what sorts of things can put a snag in the works and delay the dissemination of otherwise completed errata?   

I know that I would be most appreciative of any glimpse into the process (no matter how slight or brief it may be), that you or any other individual who's worked on the errata can provide. I'm sure there are quite a few others would be thankful to know what processes are required and what quagmires of snow or rain or heat or gloom of night can stay Errata Team Prime from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.

It's largely a triage process, BalSeraph.  "What needs fixing the most in the time-frame that's available?"  That means that quick-fixes such as individual Charms (not entire Charmsets) usually come first.  It also depends on whatever the individual freelancer feels comfortable addressing.  From there, it goes to White Wolf and at that point, the process is as much a mystery to me as it is to you.

Morangias:

But this is an issue between me and WW as company. As a paying customer, I'm entitled to a working product, and if it wasn't delivered to me in such a form when first released, it ought to be fixed ASAP. That's an honest demand from an honest customer, don't you think?

This argument has come up before, and while it's one that I don't disagree with you upon, the horse is pretty well pulped at this point.  Yes, you're entitled to a working product.  No argument there.  The company delivered to you what it thought was a working product based upon the hire of appropriate, talented and experienced freelancers, but none of this process is perfect.  It is not computer code that can be checked to see if the outcome is desired, and while playtesting does occur, it's not like the elements of the system can (or even should be) put out in beta for thousands of people to test and pick apart.  That just can't happen.  That means that unforeseen issues are going to sneak through, and no matter whether you're a first time freelancer or an experienced one with a dozen books on your resume, that's going to hold true.  It's really an imperfect process, just like any piece of artwork.

It should be fixed as soon as possible, and that is currently what's going on.  New books are in development, older materials are getting updates and I'm just as frustrated as you are 'cause I want it to work right now.  That's a flaw of our fast-food instant-gratification society.  These things take time, and that means that some things sit on the back burner for a while.  It sucks, but I'm only telling you what I'm sure you already know is true.  Heck, even John and Eddy, who are company employees, have come on these forums to apologize for stuff that's not even their fault.  There's no one sitting at White Wolf cackling madly at his desk watching us squirm and managing their evil mastermind plot to keep things broken.  It can't be good for their sales, and I'm sure they want to keep on making money from these products.

I know you're not directing your demands at the freelancers, and I thank you for that.  They really don't deserve it.  And, so far as I know, nobody is getting paid to create this errata for us.  I wish I could suggest a more productive route than complaining about it on the forums.  Maybe a snail-mail campaign to the company would be the best route.  All I know is that when it comes time to post errata to the wiki, I just want to be able to post it up there for everyone and wait (hopefully for a short period of time) to post more.  I want to put answers out there just as much as you want to have them.  I don't think anyone else in this process feels any differently than I do.

@Bodhi: I think we're in agreement that it's a tough situation for both sides. An actual working route of expressing the problem to the company would have been most helpful.

oops

Shadowfang:

The extra cost for acting against intamicies just didn't sit right with me. I think there's already far too much mechanics for intimacies, so I don't like seeing even more mechanics that involve them.

You see I disagree with this. I feel that for a long time Intimacies were horribly neglected, and only now are they getting the much needed attention that they deserve. So yeah, I feel that Intimacies deserve a much larger role in the game than they were originally given.

Thanks for the response Bodhi.

Morangias:

@Bodhi: I think we're in agreement that it's a tough situation for both sides. An actual working route of expressing the problem to the company would have been most helpful.

Yeah, it is.  I wish I could give you a clear suggestion on how to make it happen.  If I knew, honestly, I'd probably blog about it in The Solar Deliberative and get it out there to as many people as I could.  If the community can come up with a positive  and constructive idea on how to get this accomplished, I'd be glad to put it out there in any way that I could.

@Balseraph: Sorry I couldn't answer your question more in-depth.  I mean, I probably could have been more long-winded about it, but that's about as succinct as it gets.

BalSeraph:

Bodhi, I don't suppose that you could shed any light on how the errata process goes?

If you can would you please tell us about any of the following: 

1) How are the various bits selected to undergo reviewed (not all errata has come from questions posed on the wiki)?

2) What's done to determine how a correction should be made, any testing or conferring with the corresponding author?

3) How does the suggested errata get official approval?

4) Finally, in addition to what steps are required to get the approved errata posted to the wiki, what sorts of things can put a snag in the works and delay the dissemination of otherwise completed errata?   

I know that I would be most appreciative of any glimpse into the process (no matter how slight or brief it may be), that you or any other individual who's worked on the errata can provide. I'm sure there are quite a few others would be thankful to know what processes are required and what quagmires of snow or rain or heat or gloom of night can stay Errata Team Prime from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.

I'm not at liberty to discuss questions 1-3 at length, but #4 is pretty simple: If any key asset anywhere within the process suddenly gets buried under more pressing work, the whole process stops until they can get enough free time to address things. As an example, after I started officially working with ETP, I was unable to actually do anything for better than a month because I was so damned busy with contract assignments that I was behind my deadlines on. And John Chambers is extremely busy at almost all times, and everything ETP proposes must, of course, go to the developer. That's the main slowdown point. Nobody likes hearing "Errata doesn't make money," but the fact is that it doesn't, and everyone involved with errata has to cut time out of their personal life to do anything with it. That can make it rather tricky at times.

Again, I am quite happy with the errata that I do get.  I'd love to see more, but thanks and kudos to everyone for what we did get.

If I had one request/suggestion to pass along it would be to link the old WW errata page to the wiki stuff, but that's fairly minor.

On a more important note, am I the only one that thinks they need a giant nuke-throwing, anti-communist robot every time they're called Errata Team Prime?

Odd_Canuck:

Again, I am quite happy with the errata that I do get.  I'd love to see more, but thanks and kudos to everyone for what we did get.

If I had one request/suggestion to pass along it would be to link the old WW errata page to the wiki stuff, but that's fairly minor.

On a more important note, am I the only one that thinks they need a giant nuke-throwing, anti-communist robot every time they're called Errata Team Prime?

I'm assuming that you mean the errata for the Second Edition Core that you can download off of White Wolf's website directly.  Do you really think that errata (which has been out for quite some time, mind you) needs to be cloned over into the pages themselves?

I was toying around with the idea of putting together an Errata .pdf that you could download (updating it as necessary).  I haven't decided whether or not to do it just yet...

Bodhisattva:

I'm assuming that you mean the errata for the Second Edition Core that you can download off of White Wolf's website directly.  Do you really think that errata (which has been out for quite some time, mind you) needs to be cloned over into the pages themselves?

I was toying around with the idea of putting together an Errata .pdf that you could download (updating it as necessary).  I haven't decided whether or not to do it just yet...

No there's a misunderstanding there.  I don't see the point of cloning it over, what I'd like to see is a link saying something like "For further and more current updates see the Exalted Wiki"  on the page that has the old errata links.  Like I said it's a very minor thing.

Ah, that's a White Wolf Website issue and really doesn't have anything to do with us.

Making the errata into a periodically updated pdf document sounds like a very good idea. I'd greatly appreciate that.