Do Changelings' Masks Photograph?

we bought photographs from a changeling, who took pictures of another changeling

do we see her (the photographed changeling's) mask in the photos, or her mein or some combination when we look at the pictures?

It's said that those protected by the mask see through it, so I think changelings would see the mien.

It's a bit difficult, since the Mask is said to fool recording devices.

I'm not really sure which way it should go.  On one hand, a recorded image would have to have a 'Mask' of its own if you said it could display a Mien.  On another hand, live video (like watching security cams) would only show the Mask if they can't show Miens.

I play it that the photograph captures exactly what a person would normally see - humans see the mask, Changelings see the mein.

The thing is... a changeling can see their own Mask whenever they want.  And your Mask isn't exactly like what you used to be, if very close.

Photographs and cameras are said to record only the Mask, and that seems to be explicit fact, no matter who is taking the picture.

Which is why you go to the Goblin Market (Or some knowledgable changeling smith or other tinkerer), and pick yourself up a nice Token or Hedgespun camera, one that produces Hedgespun polaroids with their own mask and mein.  Changelings would see photos of their friends (Or trophies, wildlife, scenery, etc) as they actually are, while mortals would be fooled by the Mask.  Easy way to make a Changeling Photographer type character, who has the only camera in the area with that neat trick.  The drawbacks and power level of a camera capable of doing that aren't probably too steep (I'd say maybe 3 dot or less, depending on how clear the pictures are).  Why use a mortal camera when you could use a fancy faerie-made one, and support your local goblin economy? =D

Photographs and cameras are said to record only the Mask, and that seems to be explicit fact, no matter who is taking the picture.  -  Cleverest of Things

Where does it make that explicit?

SunlessNick:

Where does it make that explicit?

Pg 172 of the core book, last sentence of the first paragraph.

"The illusion is quite complete, able to deceive even film and digital media with only the occasional faint blur or aftereffect."

On one hand, photos and cameras will not reveal their true nature.. on the other hand, they won't be able to get regular pictures of their mein.  The best bet is a token Camera or a hand-drawn picture by a faerie artist.  I like the idea of a Hedgespun Camera.. they give rules for Hedgespun artwork that changes imagery or has different visual effects for different people.  It wouldn't be that out of place for a camera to produce polaroids that show the Mask to unensorcelled and the Mein to those with eyes to see. 

Also, I think that a Changeling can only see his own Mask if he spends the glamour-point needed for any faerie creature to "ignore" the Mein.  Not quite at will, but definately not hard.

Cleverest of Things:

Pg 172 of the core book, last sentence of the first paragraph.

"The illusion is quite complete, able to deceive even film and digital media with only the occasional faint blur or aftereffect."

That doesn't imply recording devices record ONLY the mask, it implies the mask shields what it DOES record in its output.

and since:

Anyone who is protected by the Mask can also see right through it. A changeling can see another’s fae mien, and she can see his in return.

am I correct in assuming a changeling has to make a special effort to NOT to see another changeling's mein in media?

crimsonknight:

Cleverest of Things:

Pg 172 of the core book, last sentence of the first paragraph.

"The illusion is quite complete, able to deceive even film and digital media with only the occasional faint blur or aftereffect."

That doesn't imply recording devices record ONLY the mask, it implies the mask shields what it DOES record in its output.

and since:

Anyone who is protected by the Mask can also see right through it. A changeling can see another’s fae mien, and she can see his in return.

am I correct in assuming a changeling has to make a special effort to NOT to see another changeling's mein in media?

Well, the wording could be taken to mean that.  I'm not sure which is the accurate ruling, since both seem equally viable and both have interesting consequences.

crimsonknight:

That doesn't imply recording devices record ONLY the mask, it implies the mask shields what it DOES record in its output.

Actually it does imply it.  But as an implication, not a explicit statement, it is still a bit vague.  The problem is that to have the Mien show on film, you have to assume the film itself has its own Mask.  The Mask is attached to a person or object.  It is not a general force that protects all things fae at the same time (that would be the Wyrd which empowers the Mask).  This also means that supernaturally sensitive creatures might be able to figure out that the picture of a supernatural creature, because the picture itself would have Wyrd woven into it.

crimsonknight:

am I correct in assuming a changeling has to make a special effort to NOT to see another changeling's mein in media?

If you rule that they seen the Mein, then yes, they would.

I talked to my ST again. He says he talked with some of his collegues and they ruled that the changeling and his fetch would be indistinguishable on film.

Isn't it part of the whole tragic theme of Changelings that they can't see their own reflections without their mein? A constant meloncholy reminder of their durance?

I thought it was a bit too easy if a Changeling just has to set up a video camera and he can get around it.

Of course the changeling can spend a point of willpower to see just the mask. Does this count towards his own mask?

crimsonknight:

Isn't it part of the whole tragic theme of Changelings that they can't see their own reflections without their mein?

Not really, because it's rather easy for them to get around this, as you've noted.  Of course the constant effort required to see their own Mask, the reminder that it still isn't exactly their old face, probably has enough of this theme built into it anyway.

Cleverest of Things:

Photographs and cameras are said to record only the Mask, and that seems to be explicit fact, no matter who is taking the picture.

Which is why you go to the Goblin Market (Or some knowledgable changeling smith or other tinkerer), and pick yourself up a nice Token or Hedgespun camera, one that produces Hedgespun polaroids with their own mask and mein. 

This is how I play it. Plus it gives these type of hedgspun items some relevance. Even so, I rule that Lost can enhance their Mask even from these type of goblin recording devices.

Hi

Which is why you go to the Goblin Market (Or some knowledgable changeling smith or other tinkerer), and pick yourself up a nice Token or Hedgespun camera, one that produces Hedgespun polaroids with their own mask and mein.  Changelings would see photos of their friends (Or trophies, wildlife, scenery, etc) as they actually are, while mortals would be fooled by the Mask.  Easy way to make a Changeling Photographer type character, who has the only camera in the area with that neat trick.