Deathlord Requirements

I've been pondering something this afternoon, and was wondering if anyone can give me an answer.

Making a Deathlord requires a dead Primordial's sub-soul and a dead Exalt's ghost of sufficient essence.  How high is the required essence?  All the Deathlords have Essence 8-10, but even in the High First Age there wern't that many Solars with Essence 9 (and none with Essence 11) so I'd assume that some of this score comes from having a soul-shard stapled to them, especially as none of those who fought in the Primordial War turned to the service of Oblivion.

Would you say that there's an explicit ban on Terrestrials becoming Deathlords, noting that the section on their creation in MoEP:Abyssals mentions only Celestials, or is it just that they find hitting the essence levels required very difficult and are seldom quite that insane?

And no, this isn't about the Empress, I have had an evil thought on another Dragonblood that may see use in the future, either as Deathlord 10-13 or as one utterly unknown to Heaven.

The rules say, IIRC, that you need to have had Essence 7 in life (or maybe you need it in death, meaning you needed 8 in life).  People sometimes complain that Eye and Seven Despairs couldn't possibly have qualified without extensive cheating, say.

I dont remember it saying anywhere for definate that a Deathlord would have to be the ghost of a Solar, just that they all are.

Personally I would say that a Dragonblood could be as the odd one here or there would have had the help/time/determination to hit the essence8. However I would also say that a Neverborn is unlikley to use a Dragonblood if there was a Solar or other celestial exaltation that would have taken the deal.

I'm pondering everyone's favourate Shogunate era genocidal nutter as a Deathlord, based on the section on Marmara's Fell in the Underworld book:

"Anjei Marama did not make it out. The commandant disappeared from the camp the day after the evacuation order was handed down, and she was never seen again by any living soul. The official inquiry stated that she had died accidentally as a result of some hazard of the shadowland. Yet widely spread rumors suggested that Marama’s own subordinates had assassinated her out of disgust over her depravities. The truth is that on her last night as commandant, Marama heard an insistent whisper calling her home and she chose to answer it. She descended into the Labyrinth to offer herself to Oblivion."

The intention seems to be that Marama, being a complete nutter, finished her career as a mass murderer by seeking out the Labarynth and taking a running jump into the Mouth of the Void, but it doesn't actually state it outright.  We know she was in her middle age by the time DotFA was set, so she's going to be old enough to be Essence 7 by the time of her death, and may well be old enough to hit the age requirement for Essence 8.  Another option would be to portray her as one of the most terrifying Nephwracks in existence, but she seems to be as good a fit as any of the existing ones.  She would, obviously, be rather weaker than any of the others, but I could see her "dedecation to the cause" make it worth the effort, not to mention that it would mean a Deathlord who could actually be beaten in combat by a group of Solars not that farr away from the start of their careers.

Builder:

I dont remember it saying anywhere for definate that a Deathlord would have to be the ghost of a Solar, just that they all are.

Personally I would say that a Dragonblood could be as the odd one here or there would have had the help/time/determination to hit the essence 8. However I would also say that a Neverborn is unlikley to use a Dragonblood if there was a Solar or other celestial exaltation that would have taken the deal.

Actually, there's something that might interest you people in the Underworld book.

CoCD: Underworld, pg.143:

Shogun Widowmaker murders anyone who dares to oppose him, and while ghosts usually return from such a second death, few in Tzatli dare defy the shogun. This ancient ghost would have made an excellent Deathlord, except he lacked the pre-existing force of Essence the Neverborn needed to empower their mightiest servants.

If this means you need at least an Essence 7+ ghost to create a Deathlord or that the a terrestrial exaltation doesn't change the soul enough for the Neverborn needs, that's quite open to interpretation i would say.

In case people are asking themselves, Shogun Widowmaker apparently is the ghost of Tzatli's chief military officer, meaning he was one of Bright Shattered Ice's main (and apparently loyal out of ambition) lieutenants, making him an interesting NPC for games in the First Age or involving Arianna.

Darth Fanboy:

All the Deathlords have Essence 8-10, but even in the High First Age there wern't that many Solars with Essence 9 (and none with Essence 11)

Just as a side note, Essence is capped at 10. Nobody can go higher than that - not Exalted, not the Incarna, not the Yozi, not the most powerful of the unshaped.

Darth Fanboy:

Would you say that there's an explicit ban on Terrestrials becoming Deathlords, noting that the section on their creation in MoEP:Abyssals mentions only Celestials, or is it just that they find hitting the essence levels required very difficult and are seldom quite that insane?

It seems like they need a large essence pool to be turned into a Deathlord - Essence 8-10 anyway. Terrestrials almost never live long enough to hit Essence 8 - Gauto was an exception (with Essence 8). There's probably been less a dozen or so Essence 8+ Terrestrial Exalted in the history of Creation. This largely leaves only experienced and powerful Celestial Exalts ghosts to be candidates for becoming Deathlords. And to do that, they'd have to be willing to destroy everything - so they'd need to be more than a little deranged.

If you want to do your own terrestrial Deathlord, go fo for it. It's your game, right?

AnubisXy

AnubisXy:

Just as a side note, Essence is capped at 10. Nobody can go higher than that - not Exalted, not the Incarna, not the Yozi, not the most powerful of the unshaped.

The is no rule prohibiting Essence higher than 10. It is just that the developers have said that they will never print a character with an Essence higher than 10.

AnubisXy:

Just as a side note, Essence is capped at 10. Nobody can go higher than that - not Exalted, not the Incarna, not the Yozi, not the most powerful of the unshaped.

This is what I meant by "none of them have Essence 10".  Though the Yozis might, I remember an old discussion that having an essence 11+ might be what causes Primordials to split into sub-souls.  This is irrelivant, though.

AnubisXy:

It seems like they need a large essence pool to be turned into a Deathlord - Essence 8-10 anyway. Terrestrials almost never live long enough to hit Essence 8 - Gauto was an exception (with Essence 8). There's probably been less a dozen or so Essence 8+ Terrestrial Exalted in the history of Creation. This largely leaves only experienced and powerful Celestial Exalts ghosts to be candidates for becoming Deathlords. And to do that, they'd have to be willing to destroy everything - so they'd need to be more than a little deranged.

Age isn't the main problem for first age Terrestrials, hitting five hundred years is unusual but not dozens over the history.  There seems to be an explicit problem with hitting Essence 8 requiring special methods (I'm assuming that the Essence 8 requirement is in life rather than death, and that becoming a Deathlord boosts back up to life levels).

So the requirements are:
Exalt
High Essence (8?)
Died and produced a ghost
Hates the world enough to divote themselves to the annihalation of everything

Darth Fanboy:

So the requirements are:
Exalt
High Essence (8?)
Died and produced a ghost
Hates the world enough to divote themselves to the annihalation of everything

sounds about right. I am building a sideral deathlord and that seems to fit what I am researching my self