Werewolf nerfed?

Hi all,

I have been out of gaming for a long time and am going back into it. I wanted to get in on the new wod wtf but from what I understand they nerfed werewolves by limiting the amount of time they can spend in (excuse the dated term) Chrinos form. Is this true? If so have they compensated with some other awesomeness or do I just need to go look for some old wta books?

If you're looking for unlimited time in Crinos form (called Gauru in WtF), you're better off with WtA.  There is, in fact, a time limit to how long the form can be maintained in WtF.

Nerfed however, is a relative term.

The Forsaken are plenty powerful in the nWOD.  The relationship between how powerful werewolves and everything else changed.  Werewolves are no longer the combat maniacs of the WOD, but they are quite powerful in combat.  But the entire base line of the games has been set a bit lower.

They fit in their world, even if it doesn't seem that much compared to how different werewolves stack up in their world.

In addition, it's time for my daily plug of Armory: Reloaded.  With the aforementioned book, there are some system hacks for the various supernaturals, and some of them really power up the werewolves.  You might look into it if you get into the game, because it's a very useful book and those hacks in particular are a lot of fun to play with. 

Right. The new World of Darkness has had the power levels for everything toned down. It's not that Werewolves were nerfed, but that everything is more down to earth. W:tF is a good game, but it may not be the game for you. I'd say try reading the corebook and see if anything in there grabs your attention. Otherwise, there's a bunch of W:tA supplements for purchase at drivethrurpg.com

It should also be pointed out that in NWoD there is more of a sense of balance between the gamelines (some stand-along books notwithstanding -- I'm looking at you, Changing Breeds!) and a bit more of a toolkit approach.

Not that I am a power gamer or anything, this just comes as a bit of a shock.I hope the rational for the time limit is good and I hope all the other supernaturals took as severe a blow. I will check out the core rules and armory reloaded and whatnot before going back to wta.

Majunior:

Werewolves are still damn powerful in combat though, so don't think they're not good for anything but sipping tea and redecorating.

As for putting a cap on the time a Werewolf can spend in "Crinos" form, yes it's limited now, but again -- balance. The war-form, or Crinos, is intended to be more like borderline loss of all control berserker rage now, and rather draining, as opposed to every werewolf ever born living in their Crinos form and wearing a monkey puzzle for their entire life.

Lol, hey, we only spent the time we were under threat in Crinos. That is a reasonable rationale for the limit but I can't deny that a certain coolness has been sucked out of it for me. Maybe after going through the book I will come around.

I would say, IMO, there is still plenty of coolness -- just maybe not the same coolness as you're used to. Give the book a fair shake with an open mind, and try to drop any preconceived notions you may have hanging on from your OWoD days. That's your best bet.

Majunior:

I would say, IMO, there is still plenty of coolness -- just maybe not the same coolness as you're used to. Give the book a fair shake with an open mind, and try to drop any preconceived notions you may have hanging on from your OWoD days. That's your best bet.

Your very persuasive, so I will go to rpg.drivethrustuff.com right now and order the books!

Majunior:

As for the Crinos thing... I have to admit, with all the groups I ever played with, living in Crinos and using a Monkey Puzzle was the standard. The only time characters came out of Crinos with any regularity was when we were trying to... erm... propegate the species. :) Or when we were doing the peaceful negotiations, because it's hard to convince people you're being peaceful when you're in Crinos form just like it's hard to convince people you're being peaceful when you have dual .45s pointed in their face at point blank range. 

LOL, we never tried to give our werewolfishness away too often, there was always a truckload of fomori with M-60's loaded with silver, minions of Pentex.

Piccolo-- er, Majunior-- is right: come into the game expecting a new take on animistic werewolves and you'll be a lot better off.  Speaking as a huge fan of Apocalypse, they did so many things better in Forsaken that it'd be hard for me to ever go back.  I don't know if it will mean much to you, but they really put the "wolf" in "werewolf."  Hunting as a pack, hunting and pack life in general, are much more strongly emphasized.  Werewolves fight spirits, which as a whole are a lot more powerful than any werewolf and most other beings in the WoD, and they do it in a similar way to real world wolves bringing down prey much larger than themselves. 

The Shadow Realm, which is what the Umbra used to be, is much cooler (read: darker and more dangerous) now.  And if you do get Armory: Reloaded, you'll find the hacks in there for werewolves much to your liking.  Without giving away the mechanical crunch, there are rules that let werewolves heal faster, gain strength bonuses in their intermediate forms (Dalu, Gauru and Urshul), take less damage, particularly while Death Raging, shred mortals with ease and one that might be interesting to you: a war form gamble, that lets them risk Death Rage for additional time in Gauru form. 

 

The thing I like about the time limit and Death Rage possibility is that the PC has to deliberately choose to enter Gauru, knowing the risks involved. (Not counting Death Rage already invoked).
We had this in our game a few days ago where one PC realised he was the only one in between a shark-mouthed zombie & a tied down helpless girl. He fought in Dalu for a round, saw it was useless, and deliberately went to Gauru. The player was holding his hands over his eyes & holding his breath on the attack roll. SEVEN successes! Thankfully, he kept DR in.
My PC jumps down to be the barrier between the now deadly werewolf & tied up girl. In Urshal. Packmate coping, cool, attack zombie-lord creature. SEVEN successes! Again, just keeping DR under control. Zombie stops moving, whew!
Zombie dies, girl is freaking the wiggins out, and I have to calm the Gauru down before he attacks me or the girl, just from the rush. It took the remaining turns to do so.
And all with AWESOME roleplaying. We hammed it up, knowing that there was a ticking timebomb.
Needless to say, for a second session, everyone got bonus XP for adding to the tenseness of the fight scene.
Nerfed? Not freaking likely.

Screw nerfed. They made the warform mean something. Gauru has much more impact than Crinos did, because nobody uses Gauru unless they're serious or stupid. I've played a werewolf for several months who has resisted going to Gauru every time because, aside from him being screwed over by not being able to use his head in a fight, Gauru would have brought him very close to Kuruth, and he didn't want to risk that.

Sammi:

Screw nerfed. They made the warform mean something. Gauru has much more impact than Crinos did, because nobody uses Gauru unless they're serious or stupid. I've played a werewolf for several months who has resisted going to Gauru every time because, aside from him being screwed over by not being able to use his head in a fight, Gauru would have brought him very close to Kuruth, and he didn't want to risk that.

This is exactly what I was trying to say above. Very nice.
I've been looking over the other corebooks briefly, and if the other main splats don't have physical buffing, they're screwed in a physical fight against our werewolves. Yes, the other splats have different directions, but you'd need to get fairly focussed to taken on Gauru. (I don't know anything about Promethean, so not going there.)
And of course, our old favourite: Gauru vs. Human. No contest. Hopefully!
Anyway, not wanting to derail thread into another comparison contest.

Majunior:

As for the Crinos thing... I have to admit, with all the groups I ever played with, living in Crinos and using a Monkey Puzzle was the standard. The only time characters came out of Crinos with any regularity was when we were trying to... erm... propegate the species. :) Or when we were doing the peaceful negotiations, because it's hard to convince people you're being peaceful when you're in Crinos form just like it's hard to convince people you're being peaceful when you have dual .45s pointed in their face at point blank range. 

The only time my oWOD Bone Gnawers ever lived in Crinos was when my Rastaferian BG smoked obscene amounts of weed and didn't realize he was in Crinos.  Then again, he wasn't really in the mood to fight in said form either by that point.  Though Piccolo is right on the subject matter.