White Wolf Publishing

Username Password  
     
Forgot Password?   Register
2 Pages12>
Raksha Grace Artifacts.. Am I doing this right?
Options View
Previous Topic Next Topic
ZexionAlmasy
Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:11:01 PM(UTC)
#1

I will be posting several artifacts below, please tell me if you notice any errors with any of the artifacts below or have suggestions for improving them. Thank you for your time.


The Pendent of the Ignoble Hero
(1-dot Oneiromancy)
"There was once a hero who took it upon himself to visit the out crop villages of every city and
perform gallant acts yet requested not a single gift before leaving as the village cheered for
him. Many saw him as the hero of the nation, a gift from the gods while few saw him for his
true self. When out of sight of the cities he would ignore the pleas of travelers and let bandits
run rampant, for he hungered not for justice but rather for the glory and awe of cities."


The Chain of the Broken Fang
(1-dot Oneiromancy)
"By age, sickness or simply misfortune the weak, the lame and the dying are caste aside. Only
after throwing away their honor and their pride and searching for the mercy of their brethren
or their gods can they hope them to survive another sunset and await another sunrise."


Terror of the Flickering Blue Flame
(4-dot Behemoth)
“The torrent of flames that the beast exhales have similar properties to that of a Fuel Bolt Launcher .”



~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~ Approved Artifacts ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~

Vow of the Guardian
(1-dot Adjuration)
“Until people of these lands feel safe and protected, their pleas shall be my will.”


The Pouch of the Tender Vagabond
(1-dot Oneiromancy)
There was once a wanderer who travel from the forgotten towns to the forsaken villages. He
could not turn a cold eye to the suffering and the travesties that were before him, and wept
with them. His tears were not of pain but helplessness to ease their pain. His travels would
pause until every wound was mended, every belly filled, and every elder tended to. Even as
he tended to everyone he saw, he never tended to himself until he too became an tattered
elder. A young child, hardly a dozen winters old tended to him, mended his wounds and filled
his belly. His wandering ways ended that day, as he passed the mantle of the tender wanderer
to the young child, only to watch them disappear in the distance to a place unknown.


Hellfang of the Judge
(1-dot Oneiromancy)
A being who judges man's and beast's guilt or innocence of wrong doing, is sometimes also
the same as the one who enacts punishment. The leader of such a group must be made held as
a perfect example, to be a beacon to all. Should she fail and become tainted, her successes
shall judge her, with her own blade. Within a land there should be only one true judge, upon
which hip the one blade of judgement shall rest, bringing order and crimson rivers in its wake.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
 |  Edit by user
TCA666
Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:36:02 PM(UTC)
#2

ZexionAlmasy wrote:
Pouch of the Happy Healer
Looks mechanically sound. I'd like it if there was some fluff to go with it, of course. Where'd it come from? Who made it?

Fair Folk are all about the story, after all.
Segev
Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:42:01 PM(UTC)
#3

Just checking: is that three separate applications of OOC? I think you need one per kind of item it can produce.
Kukla
Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:52:41 PM(UTC)
#4

What Seggles said.
Come check out Myriad Song, a retro-styled science fiction RPG. Or, go straight to our Kickstarter.
Exalted art and commissions by Myrrh. Kukla-Tested, Kukla-Approved.
Prices ranging from $10 for sketched busts to $70 for color figures.
ZexionAlmasy
Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:02:42 PM(UTC)
#5

@TCA666
Let me see what I can do.. I think I would change the name for this item to fit the tale I thought of..

The Pouch of the Tender Vagabond
There was once a wanderer who travel from the forgotten towns to the forsaken villages. He could not turn a cold eye to the suffering and the travesties that were before him, and wept with them. His tears were not of pain but helplessness to ease their pain. His travels would pause until every wound was mended, every belly filled, and every elder tended to. Even as he tended to everyone he saw, he never tended to himself until he too became an elder. A young child, hardly a dozen winters old tended her him, mended his wounds and filled his belly. His wandering ways ended that day, as he passed the mantle of the tender wanderer to the young child, only to watch them disappear in the distance to a place unknown.

@Segev + Kukla
Yes, three applications.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Lafing Cat
Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:16:24 PM(UTC)
#6

Ordinary Object Creation cannot create Seven Bounties Paste.

"Under no circumstances can this charm create ... any item with inherent magical properties..."

Seven Bounties Paste, as an "Everyday wonder" is an item with inherent magical properties.

"Though the Exalted often overlook this magic as beneath them..."
Resident Forum Prism Cat

ZexionAlmasy
Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:20:15 PM(UTC)
#7

@Lafing Cat
I thought magical properties referred to artifacts... hmm, do you know of a good tonic then that is not a wonder? I know of several Thaumaturgy solutions but would those count as magical?
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Synapse
Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:21:04 PM(UTC)
#8

Thaumaturgy is magic, yes.
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
...never miss a good riot. It's like missing a Cynis orgy.

So she didn't lose her head after all.
ZexionAlmasy
Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:27:48 PM(UTC)
#9

For now.. I am changing the Paste with:
Elegant Muse Attitude
Laced within the Opium is the [hope], not only that the pain will end but also that the
source of the suffering: the disease, infection or poison; will also be banished.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
 |  Edit by user
nick012000.2
Friday, March 09, 2012 1:26:39 AM(UTC)
#10
Looks fine to me, especially since you've probably got a ridiculous Resources-equivalent through your Gossamer background anyway.
ZexionAlmasy
Friday, March 09, 2012 6:46:04 AM(UTC)
#11

Now for the first Oath...

Vow of the Guardian
(1-dot Adjuration)
“Until people of these lands feel safe and protected, their pleas shall be my will.”
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Gaius
Friday, March 09, 2012 7:11:14 AM(UTC)
#12
The Spell's already been covered, but looks good.

The Oath also works just fine, and feels appropriately flavorful. Depending on how you feel about it, you might consider slipping a time limit or easier fulfillment condition into the wording. Unexpected circumstances might come up, and it would be irritating to have to break the Oath (and have a botch floating overhead) to decommit the mote. Of course, that "I must succeed!" absence of backdoors can add a sense of urgency and fun. So, entirely up to your preference.
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
Isator Levi
Friday, March 09, 2012 8:34:45 AM(UTC)
#13

Gaius wrote:
you might consider slipping a time limit or easier fulfillment condition into the wording.


Well, technically, you could probably use unnatural mental influence to make them feel safe, and be released from the obligation.

It also technically doesn't say that you have to suceed, just to try.
Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Messenger Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clófaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcán, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi
Gaius
Friday, March 09, 2012 3:19:43 PM(UTC)
#14
Isator Levi wrote:
Gaius wrote:
you might consider slipping a time limit or easier fulfillment condition into the wording.


Well, technically, you could probably use unnatural mental influence to make them feel safe, and be released from the obligation.

It also technically doesn't say that you have to suceed, just to try.
Good point, and the trickery level is appropriately high. I guess I was thinking of worst-case scenarios (e.g. they've all been killed -- with souls sent into Lethe, Soulsteel, or the Void; some bastard Solar-alike's seized the area and his magic is keeping anyone from feeling safe or protected), but those probably aren't so likely.

Also, just had an amusing image, albeit one requiring either a jerk of an ST or a player who's cool with it:
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
Isator Levi
Friday, March 09, 2012 3:47:00 PM(UTC)
#15

I dunno, one's villagers would probably have to be pretty dumb to feel safe in the presence of a living hostile Exalt.
Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Messenger Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clófaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcán, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi
Gaius
Friday, March 09, 2012 3:59:17 PM(UTC)
#16
True, but I don't think that makes it unreasonable. The raksha's been in town a while: I could see the villagers doing all sorts of dumb things.

Mostly, I just liked the inversion of a group's, "We all believe in you!" sentiment being magically harmful to their champion's success.
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
Isator Levi
Friday, March 09, 2012 8:21:21 PM(UTC)
#17

Gaius wrote:

Mostly, I just liked the inversion of a group's, "We all believe in you!" sentiment being magically harmful to their champion's success.


Oh raksha; why you so raksha?
Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Messenger Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clófaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcán, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi
Segev
Friday, March 09, 2012 9:39:35 PM(UTC)
#18

We tried being Jadeborn, but they looked at us funny. So being raksha seems to be what we're better at.
Lafing Cat
Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:27:28 AM(UTC)
#19

Segev wrote:
We tried being Jadeborn, but they looked at us funny. So being raksha seems to be what we're better at.

You were even better at being Hanya food, maybe you should go back to that!
Resident Forum Prism Cat

Segev
Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:42:09 AM(UTC)
#20

Lafing Cat wrote:
Segev wrote:
We tried being Jadeborn, but they looked at us funny. So being raksha seems to be what we're better at.

You were even better at being Hanya food, maybe you should go back to that!

Really? The last one I tried to feed wound up forged into a lovely Freehold, but was violently ill on my narrative. I don't think I was a very good Hannya snack at all. I was sad.
ZexionAlmasy
Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:32:44 AM(UTC)
#21

Hellfang of the Judge
(1-dot Oneiromancy)
A being who judges man's and beast's guilt or innocence of wrong doing, is sometimes also
the same as the one who enacts punishment. The leader of such a group must be made held as
a perfect example, to be a beacon to all. Should she fail and become tainted, her successes
shall judge her, with her own blade. Within a land there should be only one true judge, upon
which hip the one blade of judgement shall rest, bringing order and crimson rivers in its wake.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
 |  Edit by user
Gaius
Saturday, March 10, 2012 7:04:29 AM(UTC)
#22
Looks like a nice, straightforward spell.

Just a small typo: the Dreams and Passion 'penalty to action X' Charm is Unwanted Obsession Provocation Technique; Emotion-Weaving Style is the Motivation rewriting Charm.
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
ZexionAlmasy
Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:10:47 PM(UTC)
#23

Oops, thanks for that save. I will be posting my Behemoth up soon.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Segev
Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:44:21 PM(UTC)
#24

Wait, does the Hellfang of the Judge apply penalties to its wielder when fighting "protectors?" That seems an odd thing to spend points on...
ZexionAlmasy
Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:05:13 PM(UTC)
#25

It is an outward facing Oneiromancy so.. it would effect anyone within a small area around it, not just the wielder, right? If the wielder if the one fighting the protectors he has betrayed the idea of a good judge and should then be punished for such an act while those who protect the weak and innocent should be aided in cutting down the former judge.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Segev
Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:16:58 PM(UTC)
#26

Ah! Okay, that makes sense, then.
ZexionAlmasy
Saturday, March 10, 2012 9:12:32 PM(UTC)
#27

Terror of the Flickering Blue Flame
(4-dot Behemoth)
“The torrent of flames that the beast exhales have similar properties to that of a Fuel Bolt Launcher .”
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 2:56:27 AM(UTC)
#28
ZexionAlmasy wrote:
Terror of the Flickering Blue Flame
(4-dot Behemoth)
“The torrent of flames that the beast exhales have similar properties to that of a Fuel Bolt Launcher .”

Honestly, if I were making it, I'd ditch the Fangs mutation for an Assumption, and give it another Artifact weapon to represent its bite and/or claws; nothing says you're limited to only one. Razor Claws are probably a good one for the latter. Maybe a pair of sabretooth tiger-like fangs might count as a pair of Short Daiklaves.

Also, you need at least a 2-dot Oneiromancy to make an Outward-facing Oneiromancy, since you need Assumption of the Land's Heart, which costs 2 MP; if you want it to still have a physical form while in use, you need a 3-dot Oneiromancy, so it can have two Assumption charms.
 |  Edit by user
ZexionAlmasy
Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:12:54 AM(UTC)
#29

nick012000.2 wrote:
Also, you need at least a 2-dot Oneiromancy to make an Outward-facing Oneiromancy, since you need Assumption of the Land's Heart, which costs 2 MP; if you want it to still have a physical form while in use, you need a 3-dot Oneiromancy, so it can have two Assumption charms.

...Wha? What are you talking about? Why do I need this again?
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Segev
Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:56:48 AM(UTC)
#30

Nick, you're just plain wrong, here. Assumption of the Land's Heart isn't necessary for an outward-facing Oneiromancy; it's necessary for one that is embedded in a very region, where the entire region is afflicted by the spell and people are affected just by being there. It has a much broader AoE than most outward-facing Oneiromancies.
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:17:36 AM(UTC)
#31
Segev wrote:
Nick, you're just plain wrong, here. Assumption of the Land's Heart isn't necessary for an outward-facing Oneiromancy; it's necessary for one that is embedded in a very region, where the entire region is afflicted by the spell and people are affected just by being there. It has a much broader AoE than most outward-facing Oneiromancies.

Without an area-effect Assumption, you can't have an outward-facing oneiromancy. "Outward-facing glamours
affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions". Thus, you need an area-effect Assumption to get it to work. That is, the number of "all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell" who can get affected is "determined by its Assumptions".
 |  Edit by user
GryMor
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:22:24 AM(UTC)
#32

nick012000.2 wrote:

Without an area-effect Assumption, you can't have an outward-facing oneiromancy. "Outward-facing glamours
affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions". Thus, you need an area-effect Assumption to get it to work. That is, the number of "all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell" who can get affected is "determined by its Assumptions".


Look at what you quoted more carefully:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:37:40 AM(UTC)
#33
GryMor wrote:
nick012000.2 wrote:

Without an area-effect Assumption, you can't have an outward-facing oneiromancy. "Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions". Thus, you need an area-effect Assumption to get it to work. That is, the number of "all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell" who can get affected is "determined by its Assumptions".


Look at what you quoted more carefully:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell... determined by its Assumptions". That is, the Assumptions determine how many characters they can affect.
 |  Edit by user
ZexionAlmasy
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:41:44 AM(UTC)
#34

@Nick
Pauper’s Mask, p.136 GWM, effects all those who perceive it. It does do one at a time.. It does not have any assumption other than the Elemental Assumption of Wood. Are you saying this example in the book is incorrect?
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Segev
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:45:56 AM(UTC)
#35

nick012000.2 wrote:
GryMor wrote:
nick012000.2 wrote:

Without an area-effect Assumption, you can't have an outward-facing oneiromancy. "Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions". Thus, you need an area-effect Assumption to get it to work. That is, the number of "all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell" who can get affected is "determined by its Assumptions".


Look at what you quoted more carefully:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell... determined by its Assumptions". That is, the Assumptions determine how many characters they can affect.

Your ellipsis leaves out a very important word: "or."

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"

So those who perceive it are affected.

Alternatively, those who enter a proximity determined by its Assumptions are affected.

Only the latter requires the AoE Assumption. The former requires an object that can be perceived.
GryMor
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:54:04 AM(UTC)
#36

nick012000.2 wrote:
GryMor wrote:

Look at what you quoted more carefully:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell... determined by its Assumptions". That is, the Assumptions determine how many characters they can affect.


"determined by it's Assumptions" is part of the "who enter a proximity to the spell" clause, note the lack of comma and the presence of "or".
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:30:16 AM(UTC)
#37
Segev wrote:
nick012000.2 wrote:
GryMor wrote:
nick012000.2 wrote:

Without an area-effect Assumption, you can't have an outward-facing oneiromancy. "Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions". Thus, you need an area-effect Assumption to get it to work. That is, the number of "all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell" who can get affected is "determined by its Assumptions".


Look at what you quoted more carefully:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell... determined by its Assumptions". That is, the Assumptions determine how many characters they can affect.

Your ellipsis leaves out a very important word: "or."

"Outward-facing glamours affect all characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions"

So those who perceive it are affected.

Alternatively, those who enter a proximity determined by its Assumptions are affected.

Only the latter requires the AoE Assumption. The former requires an object that can be perceived.

"Outward-facing glamours affect all (characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell) determined by its Assumptions"
The Or is between those two statements.
 |  Edit by user
Gaius
Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:41:58 AM(UTC)
#38
I see my big correction to nick has already been made while my connection was down, so I'll just say the other.
nick012000.2 wrote:
Honestly, if I were making it, I'd ditch the Fangs mutation for an Assumption, and give it another Artifact weapon to represent its bite and/or claws; nothing says you're limited to only one.
Interpreting that as 'therefore every Behemoth can have as many natural weapons as you want' is... pretty unreasonable. Every sample behemoth speaks of precisely one, and the description of the natural weaponry...
GWM, p. 135 wrote:
Either type of fey beast also has a natural
weapon that uses the attack modifiers of a fine weapon.
...
(of Daikaiju) Their natural weaponry
uses the attack modifiers of an exceptional weapon.
...
(of Deep Wyld Horrors) Their natural weaponry uses the modifiers
for an attuned one- or two-dot artifact weapon, complete
with magical material bonus.
... pretty strongly suggestive of one. Other than that freebie, any other natural weapons will come from Armament of Flesh, and thus won't be Artifact equivalent.
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
ZexionAlmasy
Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:57:55 AM(UTC)
#39

@Gaius
There is one minor error in your correction...
'Armament of Flesh' enhances natural attacks, it does not create them.
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Gaius
Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:02:02 AM(UTC)
#40
ZexionAlmasy wrote:
@Gaius
There is one minor error in your correction...
'Armament of Flesh' enhances natural attacks, it does not create them.
Check the full description in Graceful Wicked Masques: it actually does both.
GWM, p. 216 wrote:
Each time the player takes this Charm, he
can add an additional weapon or add his Essence again to
improve the quality of an existing one.
The Errata clarifies the 'improvement' use, but doesn't obviate the 'creation' one.
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
ZexionAlmasy
Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:08:42 AM(UTC)
#41

Well dang.. That's a new one. Thanks for the insight!
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Gaius
Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:20:37 AM(UTC)
#42
Happy to do so. emotion-21.gif I'd forgotten that use existed for a while, too; I was in the habit of skimming the Errata without touching GWM. It caused issues sometimes, but far less often than it really should.
Exalted 3E Dev Quotes Wiki (Thanks to JMobius and feminaexlux)
Exalted Dev Quotes Tracker (Thanks to Anathema and MoonWolf)
Isator Levi
Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:54:53 AM(UTC)
#43

nick012000.2 wrote:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all (characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell) determined by its Assumptions"
The Or is between those two statements.


"a wondrous tree which transforms those who partake of its succulent fruit, or a book which bewitches the minds of those who read it."

Explain how these sample outward-facing glamours incorporate Assumption of the Land's Heart.
Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Messenger Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clófaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcán, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:24:36 AM(UTC)
#44
Isator Levi wrote:
nick012000.2 wrote:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all (characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell) determined by its Assumptions"
The Or is between those two statements.


"a wondrous tree which transforms those who partake of its succulent fruit, or a book which bewitches the minds of those who read it."

Explain how these sample outward-facing glamours incorporate Assumption of the Land's Heart.

To describe how many people they can affect at once. If they lack it, they can't affect anybody. If they have Assumption of the Land's Heart, and it says it can affect X people, then it can affect X people, and either they can't affect any more people once they hit their limit, or someone is freed of their effects once they do. So, if the tree affects anyone who eats its fruit, and it has an Assumption that allows it to affect 100 people, then the 101st person to eat its fruit is either unaffected by its magic, or frees someone else from its magic.

But without an assumption to give it such a limit, it can't affect anybody. Not even a single person. Because charms do what they say they do, and all the other assumptions do is give the Oneiromancy a physical form; they do not give it the ability to affect multiple people.
Isator Levi
Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:38:29 AM(UTC)
#45

nick012000.2 wrote:
If they have Assumption of the Land's Heart, and it says it can affect X people, then it can affect X people, and either they can't affect any more people once they hit their limit, or someone is freed of their effects once they do.


"this Charm allows the spell to affect mortals in a large area"

I don't really view the distance between a book and the eyes of the person it is bewitching to be a large area.

nick012000.2 wrote:

So, if the tree affects anyone who eats its fruit, and it has an Assumption that allows it to affect 100 people, then the 101st person to eat its fruit is either unaffected by its magic, or frees someone else from its magic.


You really believe that the land based Assumptions confer a preset kill limit on oneiromancies?

nick012000.2 wrote:

But without an assumption to give it such a limit, it can't affect anybody. Not even a single person. Because charms do what they say they do, and all the other assumptions do is give the Oneiromancy a physical form; they do not give it the ability to affect multiple people.


Where in the text of Assumption of the Land's Heart does it say it establishes the limit of how many people it affects?

As opposed to, say, the synergy between Assumption of Element Shape saying "this allows the oneiromancy to exist" and Emotion-Weaving Style's oneiromantic benefit stating "This Charm may be incorporated into outward-facing glamours, causing mortals to adopt a certain motivation decided upon at the time of the spell’s creation if they take a certain action specified at the time of the spell’s creation", defining the spell's target.
Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Messenger Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clófaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcán, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi
 |  Edit by user
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:38:43 PM(UTC)
#46
Isator Levi wrote:
nick012000.2 wrote:
If they have Assumption of the Land's Heart, and it says it can affect X people, then it can affect X people, and either they can't affect any more people once they hit their limit, or someone is freed of their effects once they do.


"this Charm allows the spell to affect mortals in a large area"

I don't really view the distance between a book and the eyes of the person it is bewitching to be a large area.

And when the people who read the book leave? They're still bewitched, and they're covering an area between them.

Quote:
nick012000.2 wrote:

So, if the tree affects anyone who eats its fruit, and it has an Assumption that allows it to affect 100 people, then the 101st person to eat its fruit is either unaffected by its magic, or frees someone else from its magic.


You really believe that the land based Assumptions confer a preset kill limit on oneiromancies?

Yes, the charms explicitly state how many people they can affect.

Quote:
nick012000.2 wrote:

But without an assumption to give it such a limit, it can't affect anybody. Not even a single person. Because charms do what they say they do, and all the other assumptions do is give the Oneiromancy a physical form; they do not give it the ability to affect multiple people.


Where in the text of Assumption of the Land's Heart does it say it establishes the limit of how many people it affects?

Assumption of the Land's Heart: "The area that can be affected by the Heart Grace is a small area, such as a tiny village of up to 25 people in size."
Assumption of the City's Heart: "any place big enough to support up to 1,000 people."
Assumption of the Living Kingdom: "a small kingdom capable of supporting up to 100,000 people".
The charms refer to it affecting areas of land, but the area's left unspecified; the real rubric is how many people they're capable of affecting. Which makes sense, since the raksha deal in stories about people, not in the hard realities of Creation.

Quote:
As opposed to, say, the synergy between Assumption of Element Shape saying "this allows the oneiromancy to exist" and Emotion-Weaving Style's oneiromantic benefit stating "This Charm may be incorporated into outward-facing glamours, causing mortals to adopt a certain motivation decided upon at the time of the spell’s creation if they take a certain action specified at the time of the spell’s creation", defining the spell's target.

Yup. And without an Assumption to give it the ability to actually affect people, it does nothing. I mean, with your interpretation of it, you could make an Oneiromancy with Assumption of Fire Shape that creates a second sun and have it affect everyone in Creation, which is blatantly ridiculous.
 |  Edit by user
Isator Levi
Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:48:24 PM(UTC)
#47

I know I'll never actually convince you of anything, but I at least hope it's clear to anybody who might be new to this concept and reading here for clarity exactly why you are incorrect.

I would ask precisely why you would want to introduce such complications, but it would seem apparent from how you have expressed sentiments to the effect of actually liking the pre-errata Fair Folk rules, and having looked at one of your sample character sheets from that paradigm (which was so arcane and convoluted that I would feel sorry for any ST who had to try deciphering it about as much as if they had stumbled into the actual Wyld).
Needs Help, the Destitute Lament, Messenger Soul of Anbhann, the Forlorn Burren, 12th Soul of Isator Levi,

Clófaidh, the Drill That Pierces the Heavens, 8th Soul of Isator Levi

Abcán, the Poet of Contempt, Expressive Soul of Fiacha, the Grinning Patrician, 5th Soul of Isator Levi

Aerten, the Red Right Hand, 3rd Soul of Isator Levi

Dagda, the Crucible That Scours All Ignorance, 9th Soul of Isator Levi
 |  Edit by user
Segev
Sunday, March 11, 2012 4:07:46 PM(UTC)
#48

nick012000.2 wrote:
"Outward-facing glamours affect all (characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell) determined by its Assumptions"
The Or is between those two statements.

The correct placement of the parentheses is this:

"Outward-facing glamours affect all (characters who perceive the spell or who enter a proximity to the spell determined by its Assumptions)"

However, even with your reading, "determined by its assumptions" means that "characters who perceive the spell" are affected if it's an Assumption that doesn't specify proximity, while "characters who enter a proximity to the spell" are affected if it's an Assumption that does specify proximity.

Your reading, including and especially with the "preset kill limit" as another poster characterized it, does not work with any of the listed examples of Oneiromancies in canon works.

Once again, see the Pauper's Mask, which has no (region's) Heart Assumptions at all.
nick012000.2
Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:50:58 PM(UTC)
#49
[quote=Isator Levi]I know I'll never actually convince you of anything, but I at least hope it's clear to anybody who might be new to this concept and reading here for clarity exactly why you are incorrect.

Quote:
I would ask precisely why you would want to introduce such complications,

Because that's what my interpretation of the rules said they were?

Quote:
but it would seem apparent from how you have expressed sentiments to the effect of actually liking the pre-errata Fair Folk rules, and having looked at one of your sample character sheets from that paradigm (which was so arcane and convoluted that I would feel sorry for any ST who had to try deciphering it about as much as if they had stumbled into the actual Wyld).

I did like the pre-errata Fair Folk rules; they lacked quite a few core competencies for Exalted combat, but they made up for it with some nifty tricks like nested Assumption of Bestial Form charms; I honestly don't know why people thought they were so confusing. The new Raksha rules are pretty cool too, though; they're much more straight-forward in application.
ZexionAlmasy
Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:14:13 PM(UTC)
#50

Gaius wrote:
ZexionAlmasy wrote:
@Gaius
There is one minor error in your correction...
'Armament of Flesh' enhances natural attacks, it does not create them.
Check the full description in Graceful Wicked Masques: it actually does both.
GWM, p. 216 wrote:
Each time the player takes this Charm, he
can add an additional weapon or add his Essence again to
improve the quality of an existing one.
The Errata clarifies the 'improvement' use, but doesn't obviate the 'creation' one.


Back to the topic at hand... I took Fang based on his Form(Great Terror) and it gives him +3L rate 2, bite attack as if a normal one, is this correct?
Shattering the Cage, Assimilating the Beast (Lunar 2e)
--Newest Knack, "Forging Endless Perfection"
Users browsing this topic
Anonymous
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

WhiteWolf Theme By David Pate
Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2010, Yet Another Forum.NET