White Wolf Publishing

I've been hanging around Waterstones for a while now, reaching up to the shelf of WoD games above the three shelves of D&D 4.0 and taking brief looks at Magical Traditions.



It's fairly clear to me that Tradition rotes have certain blanket benefits (no effect from witnesses, easier on Tolerance (capacity?), and perhaps a couple things I'm forgetting and the restrictions that they have to be performed the proper way, but I'm wondering if I'm right in thinking that individual rotes can be a little more powerful in specific ways than the improvised spells.

For example, there's a Taoist rote based on Spirit Ban which, using only spirit 1, says that if the taoist puts all points into Potency, the ward is powerful enough to put off the most powerful of <spirit>s. Or there's a Theosophy tradition rote, dual apprentice of prime and spirit, to summon a spirit/ephemeral being with knowledge of what's going on in the Æther, which doesn't really seem like what could be done with an improvisation at that level.



I'd just like to get a better feel for the Traditions thing before I decide to buy the book (which is on my list, just after either I get the money together for S&S and Free Council and Book of Spirits or someone else in my game group finally buys a book), 'cos at the moment I'm not really convinced they're interesting enough (compared to just a run-of-the-mill no-system-effect praxis or a Legacy) to be worth it.

Ok, that's cool. I like that. Actually, I especially like the Taoist tradition and five-cycle magic.





Yeah, I know that (although I personally would limit it to Rank (spirit) entities), but the way it's written is that if all of the successes are put into potency something special happens to make it a perfect barrier to all spirits. Or something. I was wondering if the spells that look more powerful are actually more powerful or if I was misinterpreting fluff.



Anyway, that looks fun. I might give it a whirl... after I get S&S, FC, maybe the rest of the order books...

Actually, if you read the order books there's a lot more depth, and it's really well done. But all the core lines have fairly sketchy detail on the social structures.

Could certain fractions be made into the traditions? Like the black towers who believe that oaths are the key to everything, or are all traditions based on fallen tradition?

So couldn't you make them a structured belief and an occult tradition or would that do nothing?

I was wondering if fractions it could receive a separate set of bonuses for philosophical practices, instead of traditions?

Rituals, practices and mechanical bonuses for being in a fraction that resonate with a set of philosophical beliefs, it seems like you could justify a set of individual bonuses instead of making a set of philosophical awakened beliefs resonate to sleeper occult to make a tradition.

No, something along the line of oblations for fulfilling an oath, if you a black tower and expanding the use of the oath merit within the faction.

I said it'd be better to get specific and separate benefits for being in a fraction rather than using the same bonuses from tradition because they aren't the same things. I also need to think about this more.

Which simply means that they adopt new practices and rituals and new bonuses and lose his old ways. That means that the bonuses have to be fluid and innate rather than purchasable.

So basically you're saying "being an Arrow member who focuses on the duty-aspect of his own order should give you a host of new bonuses to choose from" ? Once more, the link between this and "Boosting spells by using a magical style" seems lost to me.

Overall, the factions are more a roleplaying element, rather than a source of new mechanical benefits.

I want to define them as specific philosophical beliefs,as well as practices and rituals, and advantages that deals with these set of beliefs. I know that this doesn't apply to all factions though.



Lankin, I wanted to see if I could link factions and traditions, I know that I can't. So I should go for a separate set of advantages.

See, THIS is actually possible. You can simply say "all the members of the Black Tower in this city uses the Bushido tradition", claiming that this sort of approach to magic is taught exclusively by this specific magical tradition within the setting. That way you get a direct link between the occult rituals, style and belief system and the awakened order faction, with a minimum amount of effort and rewriting.



Much easier than just taking a faction and turning it into a Tradition whole cloth.

The thing is, though, you're misunderstanding what the Orders are all about. They're not just groupings of scientist-wizards and judge-wizards and army-wizards.



The Free Council believe that Supernal truth filters into all aspects of human society; that human endeavors are all influenced by the Supernal Realms. They also believe it's their duty to fight for the common man, and to fight against the Lie. All three of these are related; fighting for the common man fights against the Lie, and they do this because humanity is Supernal. They don't just focus on science; they also work towards helping out artists, thinkers, and philosophers.



The Silver Ladder are not just executives, they're preists. They were the Vox Draconis in the days of yore; the advisors of the Atlantean wizard-kings, and advisors they remain. They believe that the Ascention to the Supernal is humanity's right; it's just that the last time they tried it, they weren't ready. They believe that for the Awakened Nation to be fully realized, people need to look past differences like skin tone, tribe, and wealth; we need to be united in one nation respectful of differences and exultant in unity. We need to grasp our destiny with our own two hands; we need to work towards a better tomorrow.



The Guardians aren't just spies and secret police. They believe magic is a treasured thing, and that every time someone unworthy gets ahold of it or a sight of it, they pollute its majesty. They corrupt it, and slowly corrupt the world. They guard magic, until their savior arrives, seals the Abyss, and saves the world.



The Adamantine Arrow are more than simple warriors; their entire order is focused on the ideals of service, duty, and oaths, with the ideal being a warrior-scholar without peer. They seek to perfect themselves; for by perfecting their bodies and souls, they reach towards the Supernal and turn their bodies into living Atlantean runes.



I'm not entirely sure what the Mysterium believes, but they've got a similar religious purpose as the other Orders.



On the topic of the Magical Traditions, I was a bit disappointed at the lack of a Scientific Tradition in the book. It's an entirely valid tradition, even if its Sleeper adherents would violently dispute that. ;)

The Mysterium believes that all mystical knowledge exists within the Fallen World, and that it is their sacred duty to find it, categorise it, and disseminate it throughout mage society. From the mystagogoue perspective, magic is a living thing that has a tendency to hide itself within mundanity, and which should be honoured and beautified. They also believe that their should always be an equivalent exchange of Supernal knowledge when it is distributed between mages. 

Can I just say that I really like the Mysterium. They're probably my second favourite Order, behind the Adamantine Arrow.

        Thats exact the way i think. To put in simple words, the fact is that the orders are made to be 5 in one, five orders in one pentacle that fight the seers of the throne and banishers and monsters.... Yes, i am mading the things to simple, but thats the impression that i have. If the pentacle dont exist anymore, what will happen to the five order ? Adamantine arrow dont have mages with knowledge to make laws/philosophy to make his members stand in the order, the same goes to the silver ladder that dont have raw power etc. Thats the problem, the five orders need to much of the pentacle, without the pentacle they cant maintain their structures alone... Thats why i thinks that lacks philosophy in the 5 orders... Anyway, what pentacle is, a big order that wants remake a new atlantis. With 4 of 5 orders can we say that atlantis is a folckore/mith ???? It's easy to say that free counsil is wrong to me... My point is that the idea of orders is wrong without a solid philosophy tha make possible they exist without the help of another order, thats way i think the orders of awakening are to simple if we see the background of ascension. In ascension, we have 9 groups united, but they all have his philosophy, all of the are independent.



       I dont want to make a flamewar with awakening X ascension, the two are diferent. But is possible to make the actual orders better with a possible awakening 2.0 ??? I think thats possible. In two ways. First, we can make a, similar to planescape, a faction war inside the pentacle !!!! With this white wolf can use a inteligent way of remake the orders with new ideas. The second way, is throw 2-5 new orders that dont have connection with pentacle /atlantis and seers of the throne. In this way, the orders can fight the two "big orders". In this option is possible to make orders with connection of the paths. With this white wolf can make 5 new books giving more influence in the paths...  Sorry for the bad english...

Which, in itself, is rather annoying.  Almost feels like the game is forcing you to have an all-or-nothing Pentacle.  What would a city that only had the Silver Ladder be like, for instance.





  Ummm.... I hate to break it to you, but the Forsaken DO fight amongst themselves.  All the freaking time.  They fight over better territory, better wolf-blooded mates, dominance issues, because they think that another pack isn't doing their job and crap is leaking over...  The books clearly state that unity against the Forsaken is one of the Pure's greatest strength.  In fact, painting that giant target and shaking it is exactly what happened to spark off the Brethren War (??) in the Rockies- the Pure slaughtered the Moon Tribes, and eventually Luna's Chosen got their act together, beat them back, then split back up into individual packs after the fighting ended.   That bit about the ancient alliance?  A good alpha will ignore it in a heartbeat if he considers it impractical when it comes to actually hunting/maintaining your territory (the things actually important to the Uratha).  And that's assuming that they believe in some old alliance.

Not to mention strife between the Uratha along mortal lines. For instance, if an independant (and predominantly white) neighborhood gets annexed into a city with an African-American majority, and crime starts going up along with the African-American demographic percentage, who do you think would be most vociferous about the change? The local, middle-class werewolves, who'd know about how the changes would have a negative effect on the local spiritual landscape.



Meanwhile, the inner city pack of African-American werewolves might try to promote it, since they make all their money off the drug trade, and if more people are buying and selling drugs, the resonance of the area facilitates people buying and selling ever more drugs, leading to more profits and bling.



Needless to say, their goals are at sort of cross-purposes, and they're likely to start fighting as a result of mortal decision-making and for entirely mortal reasons. One to protect their home, and the other out of greed.

I emphasize the organization structure over the social roles in the game-  If you're in the GotV, you're in it for the cults, not the secret police angle. Joining the Arrow means that you're actually joining a monastic brother-/sister-hood like the Knights Templar, Sufi Dervishes, or Vajrayana Buddhist temple.  The Silver Ladder is actually a collection of mage families (what better way to form the mage's Old Boys Network... I mean, Cryptopoly ;P) that you're adopted into.  The local Academic Acropolis is actually pretty close to the Mysterium party line- not many ways to change 'magic academy' around.  The Free Council's incarnation is a collection of basically losely affiliated free agents and new age inventors, kind of like the magical version of the sourceforge.net.  The Seers... are religions defined by Blind Faith in some god, and usually not some former mortal from some 'ideal magic city.'  Banisher is just a name given to an Awakened Hunter, not an organization.  The Scelesti, however, do get their own organization.



This way, I feel can keep the a lot of the feel of the Orders while not becoming tied down to the predetermined S.L. = politician, AA = warrior, GotV = secret police, etc.  While, theoretically, you could be an aspiring politician from the Mysterium or Arrow, this idea generally failed to come up in practice.  It also places more emphasis on the so-called Orders growing and forming over time, rather than being echoes of some long-forgotten ideal that may-or-may-not exist. 



I also like using Magical Traditions as a third 'axis' in my games, given the emphasis my NYC setting places on a culture mixing pot, though I generally restrict the Traditions to major groupings like Hermetic, Kabbalic, Taoist, Buddhist, Scientific, etc.  The smaller groups that only focus on effects of one or two Arcana, like the Templar or Theosophy tradition, are better served as Legacies (or at least I think so).