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Isidoros, the Black Boar That Twists the Sky
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:45:17 AM(UTC)

ISIDORITE URGE (THE URGE TO CAROUSE)
The Age of Dreams was a time of wonder and madness, where the souls of titans played in the sandbox of Creation and the newborn gods toiled beneath twin suns. Isidoros found it unbearably stolid, and welcomed the futile invasions of the raksha as a brief distraction, herding them into the burning razor banks of his sister Adrián. In this quietly dying Age of Sorrows, he imparts the heart of a frustrated anarchist upon those Green Sun Princes who seek his patronage. This Urge leads the Infernal Exalted to cause chaos through their actions, kicking out the legs from beneath established order. They provoke revolution, sow dissent, demolish tradition, place peasants on thrones and hurl rulers from their towers.

Conviction is Isidoros’ core Virtue, for none may force him to turn aside from his desires, though Valor comes a close second, teaching him that challengers must be beaten back from his position at the centre of the universe. Compassion allows him to show mercy in the form of carelessness, forgiving the irrelevant everyone. Temperance reminds him of the importance of self-mastery, though his egocentric might warps this lesson into a rejection of foreign authority.

Examples include:
• Split the Immaculate Cult in half over a point of irreconcilable doctrine.
• Slay the Celestial Censor of the North.
• Incite civil war in the Realm.
• Cause the Lintha to abandon their worship of Kimbery.
• Break the Perfect of Paragon’s control over his city.

The Torment of Isidoros: When an Infernal with an Isidorite Urge accumulates 10 points of Limit he suffers the Torment of Isidoros. For one full day, the world seems colourless and absent of life, an empty void that no amount of effort will fill. The Infernal is stripped of all impetus – he is treated as having no Motivation, Virtues rated at 1, and only acknowledges his intimacies insofar as they are less unimportant to him than everything else. Given the chance, he will simply wallow in his own ennui for the duration, eating whatever is on hand if strictly necessary and sleeping only if tiredness overtakes him. He will act to defend his own life, but otherwise cares nothing for the world or anyone in it – it is simply too much bother.

MANDATE-DISMISSING PETULANCE (ACT OF VILLAINY)
Isidoros regards authority as a lie invented by the insecure, to secure their power and knowledge. He is power, and his opinion is the only one that matters – why should he heed the laws of the Yozis? Whenever a warlock responds to an order, proposal or idea with a physical attack or a dismissal deliberately intended to cause insult, roll his Valor. Each success reduces accumulated Limit by one (minimum zero). Orders rejected in this manner must be reasonable in nature and source, while proposals and ideas must be seemingly helpful – responding to hostility or madness with irritation is merely expected, not the anarchic behaviour that the Black Boar’s philosophy rewards.

FIRST ISIDOROS EXCELLENCY


ISIDOROS MYTHOS EXULTANT


SORCEROUS ENLIGHTENMENT OF ISIDOROS


ASCENDANCY MANTLE OF ISIDOROS
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
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Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:46:21 AM(UTC)

INDOMITABLE HEDONISM DRIVE


CHARM CONCEPT: DESIRES


UNBOTHERED BY FLIES


BRUSHING OFF SPIDERS


STUBBORN GOD-BEAST INDULGENCE


MERRY BOAR RAMPAGE


SHUTTING OUT ENDLESS BABBLE


TAUNT-THE-EMPEROR PHILOSOPHY


REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE


DISRUPTION IS EXISTENCE


AROUSING INDELICATE PASSIONS


ONE-AND-ONLY INSISTENCE


THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE


BARGING WEAKLINGS ASIDE


UNSHAKEABLE (VIRTUE)-TOTEM INTERPRETATION


CAVORTING PIG-IDOL INFLUENCE


ALIVE AT THE WORLD’S PEAK


BLOOD-AND-RUTTING VOGUE


GRINDSTONE-NEGLECTING HOLIDAY ETHIC
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
28 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
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Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:49:00 AM(UTC)

RAW WHIMSY DILIGENCE


BREAKING SCEPTRES AND BONES


LEAP-BEFORE-LOOKING MANAGEMENT


PLEASURE IS BUSINESS


TOIL BY PROXY


GODLESS DEBAUCHERY ENLIGHTENMENT


QUAFFING THE GREEN OCEAN


SNUFFLING DEVIL-SNOUT METHOD


GLORIOUS APPETITE INFLUENCE


SUCKLED AT GORE’S TEAT


DARK FOREST OF LUNACY


TANGLED BLACK GROWTH


BLACK GOD’S RED WATERING HOLE


LAND BEYOND THE LAW


SONG OF THE BROKEN FORTRESS
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
25 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
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Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:51:50 AM(UTC)

WEIGHT-EXAGGERATING EGO DENSITY


CHARM CONCEPT: LIFT


WHOREHOUSE-FLINGING MUSCLE


PUSH-TO-SHOVE REPLY


BEYOND YOUR FEEBLE REACH


IMPERFECTION OF THE BLACK BOAR THAT TWISTS THE SKY


NO-ONE’S STATISTIC


WEAKLINGS COMPROMISE


FOE-HURLING GORE STRIKE


GOD-HUMBLING BACKHAND BLOW


WEB-TEARING FRUSTRATION CRASH


CLOCK-STOPPING CALENDAR SMASH


TOWER-TOPPLING TANTRUM TOSS


REGIMENTS LIKE BOWLING PINS


BODY-CLEAVING TUSK FORCE


‘NEATH TITAN HOOVES


TEARING BRASS LIKE RICEPAPER


BEHEMOTH SHOCKWAVE POUND


IMPEDED BY NOTHING


ONCOMING BOAR IMPACT INEVITABILITY


THIS TIME IT’S PERSONAL


MORTAL AGONIES DISMISSED


NEEDLE-AND-SPEAR REVERSAL


SINEW-AND-DEBRIS CORONA


BLACK VITALITY RUBBLE-ROUSING
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
20 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
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Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:54:51 AM(UTC)

ROAM-ALL-OVER CARELESSNESS


DOOR-SPLINTERING JUGGERNAUT MOTION


FECKLESS GIANT WANDERINGS


NOMADIC NAVIGATION NESCIENCE


REMOTE SATISFACTION DEMAND


BOAR’S INESCAPABLE GRAVITY


BLOODY BACK-AND-FORTH CAPRICE


CREED-ASSEMBLING FESTIVAL


OBNOXIOUS WRATH MAGNET


MIDNIGHT BELLY STOCKPILE


COMPRESSED UNIVERSE CONSUMPTION


WARTHOG’S STAR-SWALLOWING MAW


GULLINBURSTI’S DREADFUL BRISTLES


GLUTTONOUS DARK STAR SHINTAI
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
23 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
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Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:58:31 AM(UTC)

And that's the reason why I've not been posting any TAW Lunar stuff lately.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
12 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
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Xefas
Friday, November 23, 2012 1:10:27 AM(UTC)
And it was the best Thanksgiving ever.
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TheFoxsCloak
Friday, November 23, 2012 1:15:45 AM(UTC)

Obligatory:



Too late to read through all this now, gonna wait until morning.
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BrilliantRain on 11/23/2012(UTC)
Daiklave Dave
Friday, November 23, 2012 1:44:28 AM(UTC)

And it's another sleepless night for me...
Oh god, please don't hurt me...

Count Dorku wrote:
It is when it is. Learn to accept uncertainty, grasshopper, for only through the mist of doubt can you see the lighthouse of eternity.
Matsci
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:01:44 AM(UTC)

Puts the finishing touches on a short Isodoros Charmset for players.

Comes to post it on the forums.

Sees that Revlid has written a better, longer charmset.

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BBJimmy
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:04:01 AM(UTC)

Hooray! Another complete tree to add to the list! Now to find a RL game willing to let me play an Infernal...
Gatts wrote:
You can tell your endeavour is going poorly when you measure time in dead champions.

Mercury wrote:
Having a Sidereal on your team is less like having the world's best Starcraft player and more like gaining access to a set of god powers from Age of Mythology while playing Starcraft.

Holden wrote:
Just suddenly BOOM! Sidereals and Corn Flakes everywhere.
WarDragon
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:15:14 AM(UTC)

Gol-dern, that's a lot of charms. emotion-8.gif

Guess I know what I'm doing the rest of the night...
Sometimes it helps to ask yourself, "What Would The Ebon Dragon Do?" and then do the opposite of that.
-Luna (speaking through Wise Old Guru)
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BrilliantRain on 11/23/2012(UTC)
oddballWaterfall
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:16:21 AM(UTC)

I'm not halfway through the charms, but I'm seeing some really nice effects that would be terribly useful for Fiends.
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:23:52 AM(UTC)

Matsci wrote:
Puts the finishing touches on a short Isodoros Charmset for players.

Comes to post it on the forums.

Sees that Revlid has written a better, longer charmset.

Sorry about that. I've been in your shoes more than once. Post it anyway, and I'll be sure to comment.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
2 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
BrilliantRain on 11/23/2012(UTC), Exploding Frogs on 11/27/2012(UTC)
Kyman201
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:49:26 AM(UTC)
*Combines this with Czernobog's Titanic information* Yes yes YES!

MY ISIDOROS JUGGERNAUT MAY YET LIVE! HAHAHAHAHA!
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Czernobog on 11/23/2012(UTC), Exploding Frogs on 11/27/2012(UTC)
The Lidless Eye
Friday, November 23, 2012 2:53:15 AM(UTC)
"Split the Immaculate Cult in half over a point of irreconcilable doctrine"

Of the dragons or from the dragons? emotion-2.gif
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Lafing Cat
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:03:23 AM(UTC)

The imperfection is not a good one. It's functionally impossible for most Exalts to exploit, making it a flawless perfect against, for example, every Solar
Resident Forum Prism Cat

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Revlid on 11/23/2012(UTC)
AnubisXy
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:15:15 AM(UTC)

Isidoros is so pleased with this thread, he went and put his best stompin boots on.



AnubisXy
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Tavar
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:27:33 AM(UTC)
Yeah, that imperfection seems odd. Might be better if it was comparing the amount they could lift or something.
If you have homebrew that you'd like me or anyone else to review, post a link in this thread.
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:32:38 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
The imperfection is not a good one. It's functionally impossible for most Exalts to exploit, making it a flawless perfect against, for example, every Solar
I'm not sure. Yes, it's nigh-impossible for a standard Solar to exploit it in a whiteroom scenario, but it fails miserably against, say, Juggernaut. Or a falling airship. Or a raksha behemoth. Or a tyrant lizard. Or a hippopotamus. Hell, a 200lb Infernal with Weight-Exaggerating Ego Density active is suffering surcharges against regular horses up until Essence 4, and that's with their average weight being lowballed on the feat-of-strength chart. Your average African Bush Elephant weighs 10-13,000lbs, which is literally off the scale, more than twice as much weight as is available on it.

So it encourages you to go after smaller things, get even bigger yourself, and keep your big stompy Obvious easily-trackable weight-increasing aura on all the time, since it's a Simple Charm. That sounds like the exact sort of behaviour Infernal Imperfections should be encouraging, similar to "stay near and create oceans", "don't fight those more powerful than you" and "stay the fuck away from Solars".

But if you assume solely human-sized enemies, it's not a good one, no. I'll see what I think tomorrow, when I'm not exhausted, and get some alternatives (probably desire-based, or something) on the drawing board.

also, checking the feat-of-strength table again, why the hell is a yeddim (twice the size of an elephant) so much lighter than a hippopotamus, which is a bloody heavy creature but still not that massive?
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
Lafing Cat
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:47:19 AM(UTC)

A PC Solar fighting an Isodoran doesn't have a choice to become an Elephant or the Juggernaut. It makes them bad opponants.
Resident Forum Prism Cat

WarDragon
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:50:06 AM(UTC)

Revlid wrote:
also, checking the feat-of-strength table again, why the hell is a yeddim (twice the size of an elephant) so much lighter than a hippopotamus, which is a bloody heavy creature but still not that massive?

The core book's feat of strength chart is horrible. Use this one.
Sometimes it helps to ask yourself, "What Would The Ebon Dragon Do?" and then do the opposite of that.
-Luna (speaking through Wise Old Guru)
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Segev
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:55:46 AM(UTC)

What if the Imperfection applied when attacked by weapons/objects "bigger than you" as well? I'm sure a Solar could invoke some decent stunting to cause his attack to not be from his comparatively-puny daiklaive, but rather from the mountain peak he just cut off and racquet-balled with said daiklaive. Or to Samson up a falling building to crush his foes.
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BrilliantRain on 11/23/2012(UTC)
Tavar
Friday, November 23, 2012 3:59:22 AM(UTC)
Main issue is that, besides custom behemoths, not much actually threatening will trigger it.
If you have homebrew that you'd like me or anyone else to review, post a link in this thread.
Segev
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:06:07 AM(UTC)

Depends on whether you consider "I impale the 20-foot-wide, 400-foot-long column on my daiklaive and beat him over the head with it" to be doing (at least) your daiklaive's damage.
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:07:37 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
A PC Solar fighting an Isodoran doesn't have a choice to become an Elephant or the Juggernaut. It makes them bad opponants.
A PC Abyssal fighting an Ophidian doesn't have a choice to use Holy effects, either.

The Solar can at least collapse a building on the Isidoran, or bulk up their Athletics and use a really heavy improvised weapon, or ride a horse while attacking him, or crash a cart into him, or use Sorcery to slap on some extra pounds through stuff like Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, or be piloting a warstrider, or call on their Lunar mate with the ability to shapeshift into a hippopotamus, or slap an anti-gravity artifact on him so he weights less. Alternatively, they could just suck it up and accept that it's a bad matchup, but take heart in the fact that perfects aren't nearly as vital a part of the game as they were before.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
16 users thanked Revlid for this useful post.
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WhammeWhamme
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:07:46 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
A PC Solar fighting an Isodoran doesn't have a choice to become an Elephant or the Juggernaut. It makes them bad opponants.


They have the choice to FIND AND USE an Elephant or Juggernaut.

I mean seriously, if you and your circle can't acquire an elephant or yeddim on demand, you're just not trying.


Plus, y'know, their Lunar mate might be able to roflstomp them in Tyrant Lizard form.


Box, outside, think, good.
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Kotonaru on 12/23/2012(UTC)
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:11:40 AM(UTC)

Tavar wrote:
Main issue is that, besides custom behemoths, not much actually threatening will trigger it.
Lunars, other Infernals with "I get bigger/heavier" abilities, big elementals, big gods, big demons, behemoths, necrotech constructs, raksha with Sword Graces, mutated animals, warstriders, artillery, collapsing buildings.

Yes, Solars lack the innate power to get bigger or heavier. This does not mean a defense that can only be exploited by being big and heavy is unbreakable.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
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Tavar
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:12:50 AM(UTC)
Um, using a massive weapon doesn't seem like it would trigger it, and worse you would be taking a massive hit to your dice pool, thus making it essentially impossible to hit.
If you have homebrew that you'd like me or anyone else to review, post a link in this thread.
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:15:37 AM(UTC)

Segev wrote:
What if the Imperfection applied when attacked by weapons/objects "bigger than you" as well? I'm sure a Solar could invoke some decent stunting to cause his attack to not be from his comparatively-puny daiklaive, but rather from the mountain peak he just cut off and racquet-balled with said daiklaive. Or to Samson up a falling building to crush his foes.
It does apply to weapons/objects heavier than you. Pick up a camel and smack a 200lb Isidorite with it, and he'll suffer an 8m surcharge on that perfect defense before factoring in Weight-Exaggerating Ego Density.

"Bigger" is a bit trickier to adjudicate, and I'm leery of using stuff like that for game mechanics, because in my experience the exact size of stuff tends to vary depending on what size it would be coolest for it to be at the moment (both at the table and, more depressingly, in the written books). At the moment I'm content to stick with weight.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
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Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:24:20 AM(UTC)

Tavar wrote:
Um, using a massive weapon doesn't seem like it would trigger it, and worse you would be taking a massive hit to your dice pool, thus making it essentially impossible to hit.
Imperfection of the Black Boar That Twists the Sky wrote:
If a Charm with this flaw is used to defend against a character or object (including any weapon used in the attack,

So, yeah. If you pick up a big pillar (its improvised nature subtracting -3 dice from your attack pool, unless you've got a Charm to eliminate that) and smack the Infernal with it, he's got to deal with that weight.

EDIT: Do note, those of you using Plague of Hat's feat-of-strength table - this Charmset was built with reference to the canonical feat-of-strength table found in the Core. Infernals will have about two extra points of Lift in Plague's version, which you will need to compensate for, probably by dropping the Infernal's effective Lift by two for most Charm-based purposes other than direct comparisons.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
1 user thanked Revlid for this useful post.
Xefas on 11/23/2012(UTC)
Intrepid Vector
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:43:02 AM(UTC)

The second line of CLOCK-STOPPING CALENDAR SMASH makes me imagine that Izzy would fight himself if given the chance and reality would snap trying to work that out.

In fact, I imagine that is EXACTLY what will happen if an Infernal ever becomes a second version of him.

I imagine "There are two Izzies and they are on a collision course" to be a "waking Sach"-level Bad End if Izzy wasn't so prone to being sidetracked by shiny things.
Tavar
Friday, November 23, 2012 4:48:56 AM(UTC)
Minus three is the best accuracy for improvised weapons.
If you have homebrew that you'd like me or anyone else to review, post a link in this thread.
The Lidless Eye
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:16:51 AM(UTC)
What were your inspirations for his charms?
Lafing Cat
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:18:39 AM(UTC)

Revlid wrote:
Tavar wrote:
Main issue is that, besides custom behemoths, not much actually threatening will trigger it.
Lunars, other Infernals with "I get bigger/heavier" abilities, big elementals, big gods, big demons, behemoths, necrotech constructs, raksha with Sword Graces, mutated animals, warstriders, artillery, collapsing buildings.

Yes, Solars lack the innate power to get bigger or heavier. This does not mean a defense that can only be exploited by being big and heavy is unbreakable.


Abyssals are not the core splat. Solars are. The game is written around the assumption that Solars will be the protagonists, and while obviously that's not something that's univeral, the conceit is still that Solars should be able to deal with every threat.

If a Solar doesn't have Hill Hurling might, to the best of my knowledge there is *no* way for them to exploit the imperfection. (Ditto on an Abyssal, and Sidereals Alchemicals and DBs just can't do it at all.) Really, the only Exalted who might have a likely way to violate it are Lunars, and a to a lesser extent other Infernals.


Perfects are not the end all and be all of combat any more, but an imperfection is actually supposed to be bypassable by the default protagonists.

(Also, picking up an improvised weapon, with it's loss of 6-8 dice of accuracy is not an acceptable trade, because your odds of hitting the infernal just dropped to about 10% of what they used to be)
Resident Forum Prism Cat

notthepenguins
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:32:08 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
Abyssals are not the core splat. Solars are. The game is written around the assumption that Solars will be the protagonists, and while obviously that's not something that's univeral, the conceit is still that Solars should be able to deal with every threat.

A Solar can never get a Strength + Athletics dice pool high enough to lift greater than (200 x Essence) pounds and hit someone with it?

What game have you been playing?

Lafing Cat wrote:
(Also, picking up an improvised weapon, with it's loss of 6-8 dice of accuracy is not an acceptable trade, because your odds of hitting the infernal just dropped to about 10% of what they used to be)

Take Teahouse-Shattering Symphony. Or, you know, make another Charm that allows you to negate improvised weapon penalties.

It's not like this is harder to exploit than the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections, you know.
Once, there was a maiden...
who spent all her time on the internet.
"Someone out there is WRONG," she said.
So she tossed a noose made of golden light...
and strangled her opponent.
Both of them died alone.
"Love is for football players and cheerleaders," her obituary said.


I've promised to provide feedback to anyone whose Exalted-forum-based work is being ignored. PM me if you want my opinion on whatever you've done.
Lafing Cat
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:35:17 AM(UTC)

notthepenguins wrote:
Lafing Cat wrote:
Abyssals are not the core splat. Solars are. The game is written around the assumption that Solars will be the protagonists, and while obviously that's not something that's univeral, the conceit is still that Solars should be able to deal with every threat.

A Solar can never get a Strength + Athletics dice pool high enough to lift greater than (200 x Essence) pounds and hit someone with it?

What game have you been playing?

Lafing Cat wrote:
(Also, picking up an improvised weapon, with it's loss of 6-8 dice of accuracy is not an acceptable trade, because your odds of hitting the infernal just dropped to about 10% of what they used to be)

Take Teahouse-Shattering Symphony. Or, you know, make another Charm that allows you to negate improvised weapon penalties.

It's not like this is harder to exploit than the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections, you know.


You don't need a specific build to exploit the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections. You can just leave the city or the sea. And "Custom charms could make my imperfection not terrible" is not a good defense of an imperfection. If I create a new attack charm that doesn't have any keywords "a custom charm could defend against it" doesn't make it not a terrible charm.

This imperfection is *much* harder to exploit for the vast majority of characters than anything that currently exists in the game, with the possible exception of Adorjan's, which is widely agreed to be inappropriately good.
Resident Forum Prism Cat

notthepenguins
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:42:49 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
You don't need a specific build to exploit the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections. You can just leave the city or the sea.

That's not exploiting it, that's saying "This fight isn't important enough, so I'm leaving."

Lafing Cat wrote:
You don't need a specific build to exploit the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections.

You don't need a specific build to knock a building over on top of someone, either. Now, needing one to make that decision optimal? Or not sub-optimal? That's just fine. Leaving a city or ocean is fairly sub-optimal, you know.

Lafing Cat wrote:
This imperfection is *much* harder to exploit for the vast majority of characters than anything that currently exists in the game, with the possible exception of Adorjan's, which is widely agreed to be inappropriately good.

Solar Conviction, man. Solar Conviction.
Once, there was a maiden...
who spent all her time on the internet.
"Someone out there is WRONG," she said.
So she tossed a noose made of golden light...
and strangled her opponent.
Both of them died alone.
"Love is for football players and cheerleaders," her obituary said.


I've promised to provide feedback to anyone whose Exalted-forum-based work is being ignored. PM me if you want my opinion on whatever you've done.
Tavar
Friday, November 23, 2012 5:55:54 AM(UTC)
I disagree that solars should be able to get through every imperfection with ease, but when you set it so that only Lunars and Solars who focus on improvised weapons with charm support for that, I begin to question it.

Remember, to say "just use improvised weapons" is about as viable as just not using excellencies.
If you have homebrew that you'd like me or anyone else to review, post a link in this thread.
Lafing Cat
Friday, November 23, 2012 6:03:01 AM(UTC)

notthepenguins wrote:
Lafing Cat wrote:
You don't need a specific build to exploit the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections. You can just leave the city or the sea.

That's not exploiting it, that's saying "This fight isn't important enough, so I'm leaving."



If the infernal is the one attacking you, you're not the one leaving the fight. Now the Infernal is the one having to chose between giving up on the fight and not using his perfect.

Quote:
Lafing Cat wrote:
You don't need a specific build to exploit the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections.

You don't need a specific build to knock a building over on top of someone, either. Now, needing one to make that decision optimal? Or not sub-optimal? That's just fine. Leaving a city or ocean is fairly sub-optimal, you know.
So... you never have land travel? Because that pretty much involves leaving a city in your game, and I highly doubt it's "optimal" to never leave a given city.

You need to invent custom rules to knock a building on top of someone, which brings us right back down to "An Imperfection that can only be bypassed with custom content is bad content."

Quote:
Lafing Cat wrote:
This imperfection is *much* harder to exploit for the vast majority of characters than anything that currently exists in the game, with the possible exception of Adorjan's, which is widely agreed to be inappropriately good.

Solar Conviction, man. Solar Conviction.


A) Isn't an Imperfection,it's a Flaw of Invulnerability. Flaws of Invulnerability are *supposed* to be harder to exploit than Imperfections. B) It's not actually that hard to force virtue rolls, and thus trigger the 3m surcharge on the Solar. You certainly aren't limited to only doing so with a single printed charm.
Resident Forum Prism Cat

Lafing Cat
Friday, November 23, 2012 6:06:34 AM(UTC)

Tavar wrote:
I disagree that solars should be able to get through every imperfection with ease, but when you set it so that only Lunars and Solars who focus on improvised weapons with charm support for that, I begin to question it.

Remember, to say "just use improvised weapons" is about as viable as just not using excellencies.


Well, with the exception of TED's Imperfection, every other Imperfection can be gotten through by every other Exalt type with roughly equal ease.

And even TEDs imperfection can be gotten through by all the "default" PC splats: I.e. creations exalted.
Resident Forum Prism Cat

Tavar
Friday, November 23, 2012 6:07:35 AM(UTC)
Oh, don't forget, most imperfections are peirced irrespective of the weapon. This one basically wins aagainst everything but twohanded weapons or improvised weapons.
If you have homebrew that you'd like me or anyone else to review, post a link in this thread.
Xanandithras
Friday, November 23, 2012 6:42:53 AM(UTC)

Senseless Behemoth Passage?
Cosmic power flows through me, yearning to build worlds and tear them asunder. I am that I am, and all that is bows before me or sickens and dies. In my left hand is cold fire. With my right, I raise monoliths to my glory and crush my enemies. Upon me rests the crown of the universe.
And do you know what else?
I am so fucking metal my name is a power chord.
~Nephilpal
BrilliantRain
Friday, November 23, 2012 10:01:47 AM(UTC)

CLOCK-STOPPING CALENDAR SMASH lets you knock someone into next week.

Perfect.
Avatar by Melissa Uran

RIP Perygra. ;_;

"Butterfly in the Sky..."

The Demented One wrote:

Are we...are we having a polite disagreement over premodern dietary nutrition? Is that a thing we do now?
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WhammeWhamme
Friday, November 23, 2012 10:42:16 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
Revlid wrote:
Tavar wrote:
Main issue is that, besides custom behemoths, not much actually threatening will trigger it.
Lunars, other Infernals with "I get bigger/heavier" abilities, big elementals, big gods, big demons, behemoths, necrotech constructs, raksha with Sword Graces, mutated animals, warstriders, artillery, collapsing buildings.

Yes, Solars lack the innate power to get bigger or heavier. This does not mean a defense that can only be exploited by being big and heavy is unbreakable.


Abyssals are not the core splat. Solars are. The game is written around the assumption that Solars will be the protagonists, and while obviously that's not something that's univeral, the conceit is still that Solars should be able to deal with every threat.

If a Solar doesn't have Hill Hurling might, to the best of my knowledge there is *no* way for them to exploit the imperfection. (Ditto on an Abyssal, and Sidereals Alchemicals and DBs just can't do it at all.) Really, the only Exalted who might have a likely way to violate it are Lunars, and a to a lesser extent other Infernals.


Perfects are not the end all and be all of combat any more, but an imperfection is actually supposed to be bypassable by the default protagonists.

(Also, picking up an improvised weapon, with it's loss of 6-8 dice of accuracy is not an acceptable trade, because your odds of hitting the infernal just dropped to about 10% of what they used to be)



Fucking Solars, they always make everything suck through simply proximity.
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 10:53:55 AM(UTC)

Xanandithras wrote:
Senseless Behemoth Passage?
Editing relic. Should be Feckless Giant Wanderings.

I've settled on the Imperfection, by the way. I refuse to believe that something that can, at chargen, be effortlessly exploited by anyone riding a horse is too narrow. Solars who want to rely on their Charms alone can get Phantom Steed or Increasing Strength Exercise.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
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Aleph
Friday, November 23, 2012 11:18:30 AM(UTC)

Lafing Cat wrote:
notthepenguins wrote:
Quote:
[quote=Lafing Cat]You don't need a specific build to exploit the Malfeas or Kimbery Imperfections.

You don't need a specific build to knock a building over on top of someone, either. Now, needing one to make that decision optimal? Or not sub-optimal? That's just fine. Leaving a city or ocean is fairly sub-optimal, you know.
So... you never have land travel? Because that pretty much involves leaving a city in your game, and I highly doubt it's "optimal" to never leave a given city.

Except that Infernals can leave cities without invalidating the Malfean Perfect. It says "area that has been deliberately developed for habitation or use". That means, say, villages. Farmland. Roads. The only way you can invalidate it is by going right out into the wilderness, away from civilisation completely. In which case... yeah, that's going to be fun for you, since you're basically then living off the land and sleeping in caves to keep the Infernal away from you. And if you want to have anything to do with, you know, society or people in general? Then yeah, you're going to have to go to where they live. Which means land that they've developed. Sucks to be you.
"Adorjan is a 5000-year old, Kit is 17. That fails the Half Age +8 Test so bad that there has to be a new category for it."
-- Earthscorpion, referring to my Scourge's schoolgirl crush on her patron.


"Fanfiction is what literature might look like if it were reinvented from scratch after a nuclear apocalypse by a band of brilliant pop-culture junkies trapped in a sealed bunker."
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QB
Friday, November 23, 2012 11:49:31 AM(UTC)

Revlid wrote:
The Black Boar That Twists the Sky relies on raw might to see him through. The warlock doubles the number of dice granted by his stunts, though not any other rewards. These additional dice do not count as being added by Charms.


...
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Revlid on 11/23/2012(UTC)
Revlid
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:08:27 PM(UTC)

QB wrote:
Revlid wrote:
The Black Boar That Twists the Sky relies on raw might to see him through. The warlock doubles the number of dice granted by his stunts, though not any other rewards. These additional dice do not count as being added by Charms.


...
wait, shit, is that still in there

I thought I revised that Charm.

Blast. Gimme a moment.
W.H. Auden wrote:
To present the conflict between Good and Evil as a war in which the good side is ultimately victorious is a ticklish business. Our historical experience tells us that physical power and, to a large extent, mental power are morally neutral and effectively real: wars are won by the stronger side, just or unjust.
Weimann
Friday, November 23, 2012 12:29:07 PM(UTC)

Aw hell yeah. Isidoros is one of the few Yozis I'm actually interested in. Let's have a look at these.

...wow, that's a lot. I'll have to do this post-by-post.

Revlid wrote:
ISIDOROS MYTHOS EXULTANT
Uncapped dice are like the strongest thing in the game and quickly makes Charms must-haves. I'd advice you to cap them.

Edit: Ah, Sidereal'd.

Revlid wrote:
MERRY BOAR RAMPAGE
Given the Charms I've read so far, it seems pretty easy for the Infernal to gain desirous intimacies. What if she simply decides that "I want to fight this guy!" Would she then reap the full (Essence) m per action?

Revlid wrote:
AROUSING INDELICATE PASSIONS
This Charm has no way of resisting it other than paying Willpower or not being around. The Willpower cost is small, but it doesn't cap out to immunity and there's no comparison of a roll or pool to any DV. Is that intentional?

Revlid wrote:
UNSHAKEABLE (VIRTUE)-TOTEM INTERPRETATION
I'm having some problems understanding the effect of this Charm, particularly the range. The way it's written, it seems that the Infernal can have it active in the Blessed Isle and affect conversations about her in Paragon; is this correct? If so, what happens if the Infernal deactivates the Charm mid-sentence, or switches for another version? All in all, I think a world-wide range is a bit much. Given the range of other things in general, it seems strange that this Charm in particular would effect the entire world; it just breaks suspension of disbelief.

In conclusion, I love these Charms. Some of them are absolutely awesome. I particularly like Unbothered By Flies and Shutting Out Endless Babble since they manage to combine base functionality with interesting methods and colourful themes, but Arousing Indelicate Passions and Cavorting Pig-Idol Influence also seems like just great fun to play with.
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